24p questions - Page 20 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant

Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant
The 4K DVX200 plus previous Panasonic Pro Line cams: DVX100A, DVC60, DVC30.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 23rd, 2003, 12:00 PM   #286
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 54
Flourescant flicker when shooting 24p ?

OK, this is probably a silly question, but I haven't seen it addressed anywhere.

I know that when shooting PAL cameras in a 60 cycle environment that you have to worry about flickering/strobing, especially with flos.

Does this not apply to shooting 24p?

Is this because you are shooting 24p, and not 48i?

Joe Kras
St. Louis, MO
Joe Kras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2003, 12:40 PM   #287
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 242
If you are having issues with flourescents, simply adjust the shutter speed to 1/60.

The DVX100 defaults to a 1/50 shutter speed when in both 24P and 30P with the shutter setting in the OFF position. Simply switching the shutter ON and setting it to 1/60 should eliminate any problems with 60 cycle Flo's without killing the natural motion blur.
Jon Fordham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2003, 05:11 PM   #288
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 54
Thanks a lot!

Joe Kras
Joe Kras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2003, 08:20 AM   #289
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 20
2-3 pulldown??

Am considering purchasing the DVX100. Have been reading the messages here, and found them to be of great help.

What does the term, "2-3 pulldown" refer to?

Perhaps asking that question is akin to asking how much a Ferrari costs (if you have to ask you're not ready to buy one).

Thanks.
__________________
The only thing I do right is make misteaks.
Steve Febbraro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2003, 09:06 AM   #290
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 242
2,3 pulldown is in reference to how the progressively shot still frames are recorded to the interlaced video.

In other words, you are shooting 24 still frames per second. But the format you are recording to is recording 60 fields per second. So you need to fill up those 60 fields. In order to fill up those 60 fields with only 24 frames, the frames are "pulled down" into a redundant recording sequence.

Here's how it works:

The first frame 'A' is recorded 2 times corresponding to field 1 and field 2. The second frame 'B' is recorded 3 times corresponding to the next field 1 and field 2 and field 1. The third frame 'C' is recorded 2 times corresponding to field 2 and field 1. The forth frame 'D' is recorded 3 times corresponding to field 2 and field 1 and field 2. 2,3,2,3,2,3, etc, etc.

The only problem with this, is that the 'C' frame gets split between opposing fields. 2 and 1. Since fields 2 and 1 oppose each other, you don't have a complete frame of 'C'. This isn't an issue for standard NTSC editing or viewing. The motion looks the same as any other 24 frame acquired image pulled down for NTSC video screening. However, if you want to edit on a 24 frame timeline or transfer the 24 frame footage to another 24 frame medium, you need to recompress that 'C' frame to get it back. What Panasonic did to deal with this is offer a second 24P mode. The 24P Advanced mode uses a modified pulldown for recording. By doing a 2,3,3,2 cadence, the 'C' frame gets recorded an extra time so that it isn't split between opposing fields. 2,3,3,2 2,3,3,2, etc, etc. This solves the issue of the split 'C' frame but introduces a new and unique motion signature that is different than the normal 2,3,2,3 motion signature.

In order to work with the 2,3,3,2 Advanced pulldown cadence, you'll need a software solution that can remove the advanced pulldown and extract the 24 frames for editing on a 24 frame timeline. Once you finish cutting your masterpiece on a 24 frame timeline, you then can export the 24 frame sequence back to regular NTSC 2,3,2,3 pulldown 60i video, a 24 frame DVD, or an image sequence for HD upconversion or transfer to film.

But regardless of how it works, or which cadence you choose to work with, both get the job done.
Jon Fordham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2003, 12:06 PM   #291
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
To supplement Jon's excellent description you may find Adam Wilt's site of benefit to keep your head from spinning. It features an illustrated explanation of the DVX100's various pull-down methods as well as a broader review of the camera's features and characteristics.
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2003, 07:26 AM   #292
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 20
Jon: Thank you so much for that detailed explanation. It will take me a bit to absorb the information, but I'm sure sooner or later it will click.

Ken: Thank you for the link. That, coupled with Jon's explanation makes things more clear.
__________________
The only thing I do right is make misteaks.
Steve Febbraro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2003, 02:08 AM   #293
New Boot
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: u.k.
Posts: 23
pal 24p issue

Sorry if im going over old territory but.....
I think I read that you can achieve [better quality] in scene file 6
[thin filmlike 24pa]especially when exporting to dvd.
I shot some sports footage recently in scene file 5, football infact,[thats soccer to those of you on the other side of the pond],Ilaid it out in a premiere 24fps timeline and used my canopus encoder to create an mpeg 2 file and exported that to dvd ....great.
So whats going to happen now if I chase this [better quality]dvd
in scene file 6.Will I need a programe like dv filmaker to pulldown my footage in PAL.[25fps to 24pa]
Just need to know a bit more on pulldown with regards pal as a lot of these posts are concerned with ntsc.
Many thanks in advance.
David Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2003, 12:02 PM   #294
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
There is no pulldown for 25p->24p. Why would you want to?
The only reason to have your footage running at 24p is if you
are going to do an NTSC version. Just let the package interpret
the footage as 24p instead of 25p (DO NOT resample the fps).
You will need to stretch the audio though.

You can't see the difference between 24 or 25 fps. So if you
stay in PAL land, just stick to 25p!
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2003, 02:21 PM   #295
New Boot
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: u.k.
Posts: 23
25/24 pal

Thanks Rob
I was begining to wonder after 200 people had viewed my post but none until you, had responded,So to recap I can film in scene file 6 and lay that footage out in premiere.25fps timeline.
Apart from tweaking the audio that should be it.
i'll create a dvd from some more sports footage and let you know
the results.Once again many thanks for your help.
David Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2003, 10:41 AM   #296
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
What is "Scene file 6"? I've never ever heard of that before.

Why would you need to tweak the audio if you stay at 25 fps?

Lets recap:

1. you want a 25p EUROPEAN DVD at PAL resolution: just make a 25 fps PAL project and change nothing

2. you want a 24p AMERICAN DVD at NTSC resolution: start a 24 fps NTSC project and load your 25 fps PAL footage. Change the interpretation framerate from 25 to 24 fps and stretch the audio.

Keep in mind that if you want to make a 24p NTSC DVD you
must create the correct DVD flags which Premiere can't do to
my knowledge (not sure).

But if you just want a 25p PAL DVD stick with method 1 and you
don't need to do anything. Make sure that when you render
your MPEG2 file and author your DVD you indicate that the
stream is progressive (interlacing is none or progressive).
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2003, 02:15 PM   #297
New Boot
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: u.k.
Posts: 23
f6[scene file 6]

Sorry Rob If I wasnt Precise with my description.
F6 scene cine
Is position 6 on my dvx100 which is described as follows
on page 33 of the operating instructions from panasonic.
File containing the settings suited to cine-like shooting using the progressive25p mode
{the v detail freq item onthe scene file setting menu screen is set to THIN]
thanks for your replys
Ithink I will Be ok
any other tips on 25p pal then please let me know, I will post you results of dvd soon.
regards dave
David Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2003, 07:06 PM   #298
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 80
Quote:
the v detail freq item onthe scene file setting menu screen is set to THIN
In THIN mode, there is some alliasing on a TV screen, but on a computer screen, there is more vertical resolution.

THICK mode: no alliasing on TV screen, but less resolution on computer screen.
Marc Martin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2003, 01:52 PM   #299
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 605
Converting 24P standard to 24

Hey guys--While shooting my documentary on a couple interviews I accidentally forgot to put the cam in 24P Advanced mode (we're editing on Xpress Pro in 23.98 timeline) and shot in 24P Standard instead. The problem now of course is that we need to get this 24P standard footage into our 23.98 timeline. Can anyone recommed the best way to do this that will match the 24Advanced footage?

Also, in a couple scenarios we shot with a 2nd, 60i cam. We would also like to import this ftg into the project. Is importing into AE and then exporting at 23.98 the best solution? Thanks!

Peter
Peter Richardson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2003, 06:56 AM   #300
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Norther VA
Posts: 163
Best 24p settings

What settings do you guy use to make 24p look great outdoors?
Mike Zorger is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:30 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network