24p questions

Matthew de Jongh · November 22nd, 2003, 07:38 PM

really?

god, why didn't someone else say that?

the most i would do is either burn it to dvd, or export it to tape and make a vhs dupe.

there really aren't any other steps needed?

i have read so much about the whole pulldown issue but it just got more confusing the more i read.

matthew

Nick Medrano · November 22nd, 2003, 09:45 PM

Hi,
Just be sure that you shoot in 24p (Standard) for your straight-to-video stuff. 24p(Advanced) is for if you want to go out to film or make progressive-scan DVDs.

Much more info can be found here: http://www.adamwilt.com

Good luck!

November 23rd, 2003, 12:38 AM

From what I have heard premiere pro does not do 2:3:3:2 pull downs as of yet.

Meaning if you film in 24a you will not be able to convert it when importing it into premiere.

Avid, Vegas, and FCP are the only ones I do believe, if there is others please post.

Stephen van Vuuren · November 23rd, 2003, 12:52 AM

Blade 2 will edit 24pa as well.

November 23rd, 2003, 01:10 AM

Blade 2.2 only does 24p not 24a as I have read it.

Matthew de Jongh · November 23rd, 2003, 07:50 AM

ok. this is exactly what i'm talking about...

#1. i only care about premiere pro

#2. i want to be able to make dvd's and vhs copies.

#3. i want to be able to make those dvd's progressive scan (how does a dvd work if the person doesn't have a progressive scan player? doesn't the dvd down convert to interlaced on it's own?)

this is the sort of mixed answers that makes me aprehensive about getting the dvx-100

i mean if i get a pd-150 (pd-170) i know what to do with it.

i love the idea of 24p and the whole cinelook stuff, but i need a definitive answer that i'm not going to either shoot a bunch of stuff that i won't be able to edit, or have to throw away my investment in premiere pro and my bigger investment in the time i have spent learning premiere.

matthew

Stephen van Vuuren · November 23rd, 2003, 11:12 AM

Mathhew:

If you use Premiere Pro, I recommend getting DV Filmmaker (lots of threads here on it) to process your footage. Or you can shoot 24p standard and just be careful of judder frames when you edit.

I'm not sure of Premier Pro's output options (i.e. can it output progressive 24fps Mpeg) since the last version I used was 6.0) but DV Filmmaker should be able to help you create a usable file though you may have to get another mpeg encoder if Premiere Pro won't do it.

And yes, the player just ouputs interlaced from progressive DVD's if not in progressive mode or does not support progressive.

November 23rd, 2003, 11:30 AM

Premiere Pro outputs have changed however it's when you film in 24a and you need to remove the 2:3:3:2 and then again add it when going to post.

That's all I am talking about as to gets ability to edit it is a good NLE as of yet there will be an update the first or second quarter of this next year bringing it up to where it needs to be.

Steve Minnick · November 23rd, 2003, 11:36 AM

don't want to confuse anybody any further but will premiere pro edit 30p images and output 30p DVDs?

the look of 30p and 24p are very very close- perhaps if it can edit this footage it would solve your progressive scan DVD question.....I wish i had the answer for you...as i am debating the same situation....whether to spend a little more for an avid express pro or spend a little less on adobe's video collection

any help?

thanks

Stephen van Vuuren · November 23rd, 2003, 11:40 AM

30P needs no special support at all. It's turns into 60i, but because each field is the same moment in time, your home free.

Blade 2.2 does support advanced:

http://www.in-sync.com/index.php/fuseaction/support_documentation_24p_editing

Russell Fray · November 24th, 2003, 03:26 PM

>>24P Standard doesn't lose any frames, I don't know what that reference is to. 24P Standard looks similar to film after it's been transferred to video -- all the information is there, nothing's lost.<<

Actually, working in 24P standard with 3:2 pulddown on a 60i tape format makes it impossible to reconstruct every discrete 24fps frame intact from the 60i source. 24P-Advanced is 3:2:2:3, so it allows full recovery of each frame.

Heath McKnight · November 24th, 2003, 05:38 PM

Ong,

Are you shooting on the HD10 or another camera?

heath

Ong Wan Shu · November 25th, 2003, 12:14 PM

It's shot aredy in DVX100, the PAL version, which only have 25p mode only.

Don Berube · November 25th, 2003, 12:32 PM

Hello Ong,

What NLE software are you currently using or would prefer to use? Let's start from there since there are so many different NLE solutions out there - might as well narrow down the answer to the NLE software that you will be using.

Let us know, ok?

- don

Barry Green · November 25th, 2003, 02:54 PM

If you shot it in 25p mode, then you have no editing issues to worry about. There is no pulldown or any other complication involved: you can use any editor that supports PAL and you'll be able to edit frame-accurately, as long as you tell it to use full frames, not fields.

November 23rd, 2003, 12:52 AM	#364
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Blade 2 will edit 24pa as well. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

November 23rd, 2003, 11:12 AM	#367
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Mathhew: If you use Premiere Pro, I recommend getting DV Filmmaker (lots of threads here on it) to process your footage. Or you can shoot 24p standard and just be careful of judder frames when you edit. I'm not sure of Premier Pro's output options (i.e. can it output progressive 24fps Mpeg) since the last version I used was 6.0) but DV Filmmaker should be able to help you create a usable file though you may have to get another mpeg encoder if Premiere Pro won't do it. And yes, the player just ouputs interlaced from progressive DVD's if not in progressive mode or does not support progressive. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

November 23rd, 2003, 11:40 AM	#370
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	30P needs no special support at all. It's turns into 60i, but because each field is the same moment in time, your home free. Blade 2.2 does support advanced: http://www.in-sync.com/index.php/fuseaction/support_documentation_24p_editing __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

November 24th, 2003, 05:38 PM	#372
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Ong, Are you shooting on the HD10 or another camera? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 25th, 2003, 12:32 PM	#374
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Hello Ong, What NLE software are you currently using or would prefer to use? Let's start from there since there are so many different NLE solutions out there - might as well narrow down the answer to the NLE software that you will be using. Let us know, ok? - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

November 22nd, 2003, 07:38 PM	#361
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	really? god, why didn't someone else say that? the most i would do is either burn it to dvd, or export it to tape and make a vhs dupe. there really aren't any other steps needed? i have read so much about the whole pulldown issue but it just got more confusing the more i read. matthew

November 22nd, 2003, 09:45 PM	#362
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	Hi, Just be sure that you shoot in 24p (Standard) for your straight-to-video stuff. 24p(Advanced) is for if you want to go out to film or make progressive-scan DVDs. Much more info can be found here: http://www.adamwilt.com Good luck!

November 23rd, 2003, 12:38 AM	#363
Guest Posts: n/a	From what I have heard premiere pro does not do 2:3:3:2 pull downs as of yet. Meaning if you film in 24a you will not be able to convert it when importing it into premiere. Avid, Vegas, and FCP are the only ones I do believe, if there is others please post.

November 23rd, 2003, 01:10 AM	#365
Guest Posts: n/a	Blade 2.2 only does 24p not 24a as I have read it.

November 23rd, 2003, 07:50 AM	#366
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	ok. this is exactly what i'm talking about... #1. i only care about premiere pro #2. i want to be able to make dvd's and vhs copies. #3. i want to be able to make those dvd's progressive scan (how does a dvd work if the person doesn't have a progressive scan player? doesn't the dvd down convert to interlaced on it's own?) this is the sort of mixed answers that makes me aprehensive about getting the dvx-100 i mean if i get a pd-150 (pd-170) i know what to do with it. i love the idea of 24p and the whole cinelook stuff, but i need a definitive answer that i'm not going to either shoot a bunch of stuff that i won't be able to edit, or have to throw away my investment in premiere pro and my bigger investment in the time i have spent learning premiere. matthew

November 23rd, 2003, 11:30 AM	#368
Guest Posts: n/a	Premiere Pro outputs have changed however it's when you film in 24a and you need to remove the 2:3:3:2 and then again add it when going to post. That's all I am talking about as to gets ability to edit it is a good NLE as of yet there will be an update the first or second quarter of this next year bringing it up to where it needs to be.

November 23rd, 2003, 11:36 AM	#369
Steve Minnick Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: CT Posts: 61	don't want to confuse anybody any further but will premiere pro edit 30p images and output 30p DVDs? the look of 30p and 24p are very very close- perhaps if it can edit this footage it would solve your progressive scan DVD question.....I wish i had the answer for you...as i am debating the same situation....whether to spend a little more for an avid express pro or spend a little less on adobe's video collection any help? thanks

November 24th, 2003, 03:26 PM	#371
Russell Fray Tourist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Beverly Hills, CA Posts: 2	>>24P Standard doesn't lose any frames, I don't know what that reference is to. 24P Standard looks similar to film after it's been transferred to video -- all the information is there, nothing's lost.<< Actually, working in 24P standard with 3:2 pulddown on a 60i tape format makes it impossible to reconstruct every discrete 24fps frame intact from the 60i source. 24P-Advanced is 3:2:2:3, so it allows full recovery of each frame.

November 25th, 2003, 12:14 PM	#373
Ong Wan Shu Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 74	It's shot aredy in DVX100, the PAL version, which only have 25p mode only.

November 25th, 2003, 02:54 PM	#375
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	If you shot it in 25p mode, then you have no editing issues to worry about. There is no pulldown or any other complication involved: you can use any editor that supports PAL and you'll be able to edit frame-accurately, as long as you tell it to use full frames, not fields.