16:9 guidelines? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant

Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant
The 4K DVX200 plus previous Panasonic Pro Line cams: DVX100A, DVC60, DVC30.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 4th, 2003, 08:52 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 61
16:9 guidelines?

does the dvx100 have 16:9 guidelines in the viewfinder?...so you can shoot 4:3 and then just crop in post?....i'm sure this is covered somewhere but the search I pulled up had all xl1 info

thanks in advance
Steve Minnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2003, 11:14 AM   #2
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
It has a "letterbox" mode which puts black bars at the top and bottom, actually recorded onto the picture. There are no 16:9 "guidelines" marked on the viewfinder.
Barry Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2003, 11:20 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 61
if you use the adaptor and therfore shooting in 4:3...what kind of image are you looking at thru the viewfinder...i.e. is it stretched?...
you are losing res when enering into letterbox mode correct?...
Steve Minnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2003, 11:52 AM   #4
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
No, the 16:9 image is not "stretched" in the viewfinder (as with the GL2 or XL1s). You're shooting a 4:3 image with black bars at the top and bottom of the frame that approximate a 16:9 image. That's all there is to it.
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2003, 12:03 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 61
so what's better to shoot at ...letterbox mode with the black bars recorded to tape...or shoot reg 4:3 with the viewfinder masked off with tape or something and then letterbox it in post?

or is the anamorphic adaptor a better solution all around?
Steve Minnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2003, 12:55 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Norcross GA
Posts: 119
With the anamorphic, you retain your full horizontal resolution of 480 lines. If you crop, you are loosing about 20% of your horizontal resolution. Anamorphic has drawbacks besides the cost that must be considered. From my experiences, these are the drawbacks:

1) Impossible to focus with full telephoto, my experience is that the more you are zoomed and the farther you are away from your subject, the harder it is to focus. Plus, the size of the LCD does not lend itself to accurate manual focusing, you really need an external monitor and preferably one that will display 16x9 images properly.

2) You must manualy focus. The auto focus does not work with the anamorphic lens. Period.

3) No image stabilization. You cannot use it with the anamorphic.

4) Camera becomes heavier and front-heavy and not as well balanced with these lenses attached. It is very hard to hand hold without some sort of steady shot device. (I've tried one that I cannot even get to balance)

5) Lenses do not lock on tight and could literally fall off under rugged conditions.

6) No filter threads.

Generally, if you are doing event video like I do, I would NOT recommend the anamorphic lenses made by panny for the dvx100. IF you are doing scripted video with a good production crew, I probably would recommend using them.

I am hoping for a DVX200 with a 16x9 chip build in and a wide-screen lens. Until this happens, I would not recommend anamorphic for the event videographer, also I am shooting about 50% of my stuff using anamorphic.
Mike Morrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2003, 05:38 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Burbank, California
Posts: 122
Re: 16:9 guidelines?

I had a client suggest this to me: This is right out of left field, but PAL cameras shoot at 625 lines, so if you buy a PAL DVX100, and run the 16:9 crop in the camera, then you'll end up with a cropped approx. 550 line image that is also widescreen. Then you can use software to edit the footage in PAL, and convert to NTSC for final output. This is sort of like shooting on Beta and then outputting on DV. That way you get to shoot in a higher res first. A little weird, but it's just crazy enough to work... : )
__________________
Want to get more from your hard-earned gear? Digital Cinema Filmmaking Course

24 hours of educational video on 16 DVDs, focused on filmmaking savvy, examples, demonstrations, and tips.
Learn Scriptwriting, Formatting, Editing, Camera Operation, Lighting, Exposure, Audio, and Directing.
Rush Hamden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2003, 08:31 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 61
there seems to be much confusion regarding this issue with both the xl1s and the dvx100...i've read many a thread where people have stated that shooting in the letterbox mode losing vertical resolution and i've also read that it losing horizontal resolution.

The general consensus seems to be to shoot in 4:3 and then mask off the top and bottom in post. I've heard this applies to the xl1 since it is easy to frame using the guidelines in the viewfinder. This is because shooting in letterbox loses info because it is a digital process.

now with the dvx- it seems to be a differnt story- in letterbox we are losing the top and bottom part of the frame but are we missing any resolution in the middle?...is the cam essentially shooting 4:3 and masking off the top and bottom? It would seem that based on the xl1s theory , one would get a better quality frame by shooting 4:3 and taping the viewfinder (since ther are no guidelines) and then masking the top and bottom in post.

I understand the PAL idea but it does add another process and I'm not sure what NLE's support PAL right "out of the box"



the anamorphic lens seems to be the best quality pic but has some drawbacks...see post above


Can someone shed some light on this subject based upon an actual comparison between "4:3 shoot then crop in post" vs. "16:9 letterbox" mode? I'm not knocking the previous posters but just trying to get the whole story with regard to this issue.

thanks in advance
Steve Minnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2003, 10:09 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 293
I can't really address how much resolution I lose using the in-camera 16:9 but I'm in the middle of shooting a short film this way and it looks fine (am I really "losing" resolution anyway since the image isn't being stretched to fill the entire TV frame.) I've done other projects where I shot 4:3 and then masked off the 16:9 in post. The results seem the same to me on a TV screen. People talk about masking off the LCD, but it just seemed easier to do it this way. And less processing time in post.
Peter J Alessandria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2003, 03:05 PM   #10
DVX User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 281
personaly, I am not a big fan of the anamorphic, but I am forced to use it when i am hired by some productions.

Personally, I prefer to shoot 4:3 without the letterbox, then crop in post. I mark my LCD with clear tape where the crop lines will be.

The advantage of this is if you find you framed bad or your talent moved up or down quickly and you cut off or gave to much headroom, you can cheat the frame up or down.
Jarred Land is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2003, 03:37 PM   #11
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
I'm with you Jarred. Comparing the DVX100's masked version of 16:9 with Canon's option of simply displaying guide lines in the viewfinder/lcd over the 4:3 frame, I prefer Canon's method. It's much friendlier in post. I wish the DVX100 offered such an option. Perhaps with the DXV200.
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:20 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network