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The 4K DVX200 plus previous Panasonic Pro Line cams: DVX100A, DVC60, DVC30.

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Old October 8th, 2002, 02:19 PM   #1
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Editing FAQ for DVX100 (starter)

I'm beginning to put together a FAQ for editing with the DVX100 due the large number of questions this topic seems to generate and because I have discovered something very useful last night.

1. What do I need to edit with the DVX100?

To begin with, nothing more than you would need to edit with any other DV camera: A Firewire port/card, a fairly fast, large and dedicated media hard drive and the Non Linear Editing software of your choice. EVERYTHING the DVX100 records to tape is fully DV and NTSC compliant and can be transferred from machine to machine and computer to computer as such.

2. How does this camera record 24p?

There are two shooting modes for 24p. In both modes the camera captures 24 progressive frames a second and applies an internal pulldown to convert the signal to broadcast NTSC 60i/29.97 fps standards on tape. Each has a unique method for converting to NTSC.

24p "Standard": When shooting in this mode a standard 3:2 pulldown is applied. 3:2 means your original frame 1 is recorded between 3 video fields the next frame is recorded between 2 fields and then the pattern is repeated. This means every 4 progressive frames is split up between five video frames (10 interlace fields) Thus your original frames 1, 2, 3, and 4 are split up like this 11 12 23 33 44. You'll notice that your original frame 2 is interlaced and split between video frames 2 and 3. This means you'll have a smooth viewing image in NTSC but also means you cannot retrieve your original 24 frames without some extra work and image recompression. NOTE: This mode is not recommended if you wish to edit or output in 24p (though it is still possible to do so with some image degradation).

24p "Advanced": This shooting mode applies a non-standard 2:3:3:2 pulldown. Like 3:2 there is a repeating pattern where frame 1 records 2 fields, frame 2 records 3, frame 3 records three and finally frame 4 records 2. Your original frames 1, 2, 3, and 4 then look like this in your five interlaced video frames: 11 22 23 33 44. You'll notice two things about this. First only one full video frame is split between two of original frames. Second all other video frames have FULL PROGRESSIVE copies of your original 1-4 frames. This means that by simply removing this interlaced frame you'll be able to extract your original full 24 frames without recompression or image modification. The side effect of this mode is a very noticeable and jarring interlace artifact every fifth frame. NOTE: This mode is not recommended if you do not intend to edit in native 24p.

3. Should I edit in 24p?

Obviously this is a bit of a personal choice. There are additional hassles, requirements and work to be able to edit in true 24p and you’ll need to weigh these with your projects requirements. You really only need to edit in true 24p if you are intending a film or PAL conversion output.

Other possible reasons to edit in true 24p include:
a. Progressive scan DVD output. DVD’s can be encoded at 24 frames per second which can enhance resolution on progressive scan display systems.
b. Post Production effects work. You can see up to a 20% reduction in rendering time and potentially better quality work when working with full progressive frames when doing rendering intensive post production work such as compositing, chroma keying (blue/green screen) and advanced color/image correction.
c. Streaming Media output.

Whatever your choice you should make this decision before you start shooting your project because if you wish to edit in true 24p you should plan to shoot in the 24p “Advanced” mode.

4. Will I need special software/ hardware to edit in native 24p?

Yes and Maybe.

For software you’ll need two things:

First a program to remove the pulldown. Currently DVFilm’s Maker software is planning the first and only current software to remove the “advanced” 2:3:3:2 pulldown. DVFilm Maker should only cost about $95 and can find more information at http://www.dvfilm.com. DVFilm Maker along with Final Cut Pro’s Cinema Tools will also remove the “standard” 3:2 pulldown with some recompression.

Second you’ll need a NLE (or more specifically a codec) that supports DV compression/decompression at 24 or 23.976 fps. Currently the only available option is Apple’s Quicktime Codec which is native to Final Cut Pro and Premiere on Mac but is also usable in Premier on the PC. If you intend to use the Quicktime codec on the PC I’m not sure but I believe you may need to purchase the “Pro” version to have all the features you’ll need this is available for $30 from apple at http://www.apple.com/quicktime.

With out special hardware you will not be able to view an NTSC output of your 24p material until you have applied a 3:2 pulldown. You can purchase on for the MAC an expensive realtime card that supports this (the Kona SD card http://www.aja.com/kona.htm).

One workaround you may wish to consider is a video card that supports overlay on a TV output. There may be more offerings than I’m aware of but the following two types do this, ATI’s Radeon 7500 and up, and Nvidia GeForce4 based cards. In the latest version of the Nvidia drivers on the PC there is even an option to have automatic full screen output on the TV display. In Premiere with the Quicktime codec I have been able to have full screen TV output of my preview window with 24fps source material automatically converted to NTSC by the video card. NOTE: if you use this option you’ll need to make sure you color correct your overlay/TV as best you can.

5. How do I edit 24p?

As mentioned before there are two shooting methods thus there are two editing methods.

If you’ve shot in 24p “Standard” mode there is nothing special you’ll need to do to edit as a 3:2 pulldown is already applied and the signal is fully DV/NTSC compliant.

If you have shot in 24p “Advanced” and/or you want to edit in native 24p here are some general tips:
a. Capture your clips as normal
b. Remove the 2:3:3:2 pulldown.from your captured clips. (DVFilm’s Maker or current/future versions of Final Cut Pro).
c. Setup your project/timeline to edit at 24 fps. If you wish to stay in the correct time and you are intending an NTSC output you may wish to edit at 23. 976 fps.
d. Use a video card that supports Overlay for a TV output to preview. In some cases this may mean you’ll have to position your preview window correctly. Some cards will support an automatic full screen overlay mode on the TV output.
e. If you are intending an NTSC output, you’ll need to reapply a 3:2 pulldown to your final cut (can be done with Adobe After Effects, DVFilm Maker, or Final Cut Pro).
f. If your are intending a film output check with your film transfer house

6. Will my Non Linear Edit work with the DVX100?

If you intend to edit in Standard Modes (NTSC):
Any NLE that supports DV will be able to view and edit the output from the DVX100. Device control may or may not be an issue but I haven’t heard of any issues yet from either Premiere or Final Cut Pro in this regard.

To edit Native 24p:
You may be able to edit native 24 frames per second if your NLE supports 3rd party codecs, specifically Quicktime, or had a DV codec that supports 24 fps playback for DV material. At the present time I personally have tested Premiere 6 on a PC with Quicktime Pro’s coded and it works great in both 24 and 23.976 frame rates. Others have reported using Final Cut Pro successfully as well. It does not look like Avid’s XpressDV which uses a custom codec supports 24 frame playback. I have not tested with Vegas Video or other NLE’s for this. NOTE: Remember you’ll have to reverse the pulldown to get to native 24 fps.

If you have any additions or subtractions, comments or suggestions please feel free to email me. Also feel free to copy/add/distribute this info freely.
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Old October 8th, 2002, 04:17 PM   #2
Space Hipster
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Fabulous job. Nicely done. I appreciate you taking the time to create and post it.
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Old October 10th, 2002, 10:32 AM   #3
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aaron, thanks very much.
I would like to add some info regarding progressive DVD players.

All of the progressive DVD players sold over the last year have a built in 3:2 pulldown capability. They then convert the output to a progressive image. They can detect 24p source in a 29.97 video stream. They use standard telecine algorithms and may not be able to use the 24p advanced that is offered by the new Pana.

They can also (based on how you set them up) simply do an interlaced to progressive conversion with out the telecine process. Some people do this because they have external video processing devices like an overhead projector or rear screen projector tv.

If you are going directly to DVD, it's something to keep in mind.

Windows Media player can detect 24p source in an interlaced video stream and do 3:2 pulldown too.

If you need a unit to test your ouput, both Toshiba and Apex offer progressive scan DVD players for well under $300.00. both offer support for DVD-R.
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Old October 10th, 2002, 04:49 PM   #4
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Well done, Aaron... this is great. Thanks for taking the time to compile it,

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Old October 11th, 2002, 06:16 AM   #5
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I would like to echo both Stephen and Chris on your great contribution to the forum as well as acknowledge JoJo's contribution. Practical "How To's" are a great help to relative newcomers such as myself and this forum has had some great threads in this regard.

Thank you, Nick
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Old October 14th, 2002, 05:26 AM   #6
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Thanks for this great piece Aaron!!

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Old October 14th, 2002, 09:51 PM   #7
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What about 30p? Can you edit the regular way in any old NLE (I use XDV) with 30p? Is it really 29.976p? Thanks.
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Old October 14th, 2002, 10:05 PM   #8
Space Hipster
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You can edit the regular way. It is 29.976 though just make sure to record DF (drop frame) timecode.
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Old October 15th, 2002, 12:48 PM   #9
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Thanks Stephen.

What difference does it make what timecode I record in? I can always set the timecode in my sequence as dropframe, regardless of how the footage was recorded. Am I missing something?
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Old October 15th, 2002, 01:38 PM   #10
Space Hipster
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Good question. I have not played around with the TC, User Bits and NLE relationship in the progressive mode of this cam, so some experimentation and research is probably in order.
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