Low light shooting and noise on the dvx scene file suggestions at DVinfo.net

Jake Zalutsky · October 14th, 2005, 12:09 PM

Ok so I'm a new dvx user infact I just recieved my camera yesterday, I spent the day reading through the dvx book (didnt tell me much I didnt already know) and playing with the camera. For the most part I was very Impressed the color reproduction and cine gamma settings are really great and all the picture control in the scene files as well as the ability to save those settings is awsome. The only thing I was dissapointed with was the low light capabiliteis of the camera. First off I am used to shooting with a vx2100 (amazing low light performance) but Im not talking about really dark situations (who shoots then anyways) I'm talking about stuff for example shot outside with a few 500w smith&victors. In some cases when the scene takes up a large area the light spread and you have darker areas and therefore I'm used to having to turn up the gain a little 3 or 6db no problem but with the dvx doing this has caused major picture degradation. any saturated colors get super super noisy and just kill the picture. I tried messing with the diffrent scene file settings but wasnt really able to do much, any suggestions?...The noise did go away a bit when I turned down the chroma level but then I have really muted color which isnt good either. what scene file settings do you guys use for shooting at night?

During the day I also had some slight noise problems....the picture although great color and contrast was pretty noisy not awful but noticeable. Im just curious what settings people use for the detail, vertical detail or the v detail freq to get smooth moderetly detailed pictures (I am indeed going for the "film look")

thanks alot for any help

-jake

Mathew Evan · October 15th, 2005, 11:14 AM

I've noticed subjectively cleaner noise with the 'Spark' scene file. I don't like using it though because it makes the image more video like. Another option is to drop the master ped to -5 or more which gives the image more contrast and slightly less shadow detail which means perceptibly less noise.
Chroma noise is an issue with the DVX and there is no way around it. Just zero out the chroma dial and try not to shoot with more than 6db of gain. Also light your scene if at all possible. The image from the DVX rivals the vx2100 with proper lighting but if your sole goal is to shoot run'n'gun 60i in poor lighting conditions then stick with the Sony.

Barry Green · October 15th, 2005, 01:41 PM

The Cine_Like_D gamma setting is more noisy than straight Cine_Like, so stick with that. Also, consider setting the Detail Coring higher -- Detail Coring +7 really smoothes out the edges of the noise and makes it less noticeable.

Preston Herrick · October 15th, 2005, 08:08 PM

I believe the use of cine-matrix will exacerbate the problem too, particularly in low light, as it boosts chroma.

Barry Green · October 15th, 2005, 09:39 PM

CineMatrix and the Enriched matrix both substantially boost the chroma, yes.

Jake Zalutsky · October 16th, 2005, 08:15 AM

thanks, all of that helped, I have been shooting with really high chroma levels so that was mainly to blame. I lowered the detail level slightly, did +7 for coring, went down to -1 for the chroma level which still has pretty good color, and set the master ped at -7. (kept cine gamma and the cine color matrix) and the picture is really nice.

-thanks everyone for the replys.

Stephanie Wilson · October 19th, 2005, 02:39 AM

Dear Jake,

Wow. I'm impressed. Just got your camera yesterday and are already playing with the gamma, etc. levels. Good for you, panny stud.

I'm not being a smart ass.... Truly admire your knowledge.

In that vein, can anyone direct me to a decent website which might explain how to utilize the full settings of the DVX-100A.? The manual is marginal at best, and most DV websites are heavy with Canon info....

You guys who post at DVinfo are great of course, but I know you are smart enough to have other specific Panasonic resources. Give em' up, please.
Please ??????

Thanks much,

Steph

Chris Hurd · October 19th, 2005, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie Wilson

In that vein, can anyone direct me to a decent website which might explain how to utilize the full settings of the DVX-100A?

Run, don't walk, to www.dvxuser.com

Bob Costa · October 20th, 2005, 09:14 AM

What Chris said. The group at DVXuser is very helpful, and Barry Green hangs out there. Lots of other smart people there, and the usual number of wannabes. If you do not have Barry's "DVX Book and DVD", that is a great investment in learning what the DVX is capable of.

They also sponsor DVXfest, and the next contest is sci-fi. I may even try to write and shoot a movie for this one, since I love sci-fi so much.

My handle there is galt, be sure to say Hi.

October 14th, 2005, 12:09 PM	#1
Jake Zalutsky New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 18	Low light shooting and noise on the dvx scene file suggestions Ok so I'm a new dvx user infact I just recieved my camera yesterday, I spent the day reading through the dvx book (didnt tell me much I didnt already know) and playing with the camera. For the most part I was very Impressed the color reproduction and cine gamma settings are really great and all the picture control in the scene files as well as the ability to save those settings is awsome. The only thing I was dissapointed with was the low light capabiliteis of the camera. First off I am used to shooting with a vx2100 (amazing low light performance) but Im not talking about really dark situations (who shoots then anyways) I'm talking about stuff for example shot outside with a few 500w smith&victors. In some cases when the scene takes up a large area the light spread and you have darker areas and therefore I'm used to having to turn up the gain a little 3 or 6db no problem but with the dvx doing this has caused major picture degradation. any saturated colors get super super noisy and just kill the picture. I tried messing with the diffrent scene file settings but wasnt really able to do much, any suggestions?...The noise did go away a bit when I turned down the chroma level but then I have really muted color which isnt good either. what scene file settings do you guys use for shooting at night? During the day I also had some slight noise problems....the picture although great color and contrast was pretty noisy not awful but noticeable. Im just curious what settings people use for the detail, vertical detail or the v detail freq to get smooth moderetly detailed pictures (I am indeed going for the "film look") thanks alot for any help -jake

October 20th, 2005, 09:14 AM	#9
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	What Chris said. The group at DVXuser is very helpful, and Barry Green hangs out there. Lots of other smart people there, and the usual number of wannabes. If you do not have Barry's "DVX Book and DVD", that is a great investment in learning what the DVX is capable of. They also sponsor DVXfest, and the next contest is sci-fi. I may even try to write and shoot a movie for this one, since I love sci-fi so much. My handle there is galt, be sure to say Hi. __________________ You are either growing or dying.

October 15th, 2005, 11:14 AM	#2
Mathew Evan Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: United States Posts: 53	I've noticed subjectively cleaner noise with the 'Spark' scene file. I don't like using it though because it makes the image more video like. Another option is to drop the master ped to -5 or more which gives the image more contrast and slightly less shadow detail which means perceptibly less noise. Chroma noise is an issue with the DVX and there is no way around it. Just zero out the chroma dial and try not to shoot with more than 6db of gain. Also light your scene if at all possible. The image from the DVX rivals the vx2100 with proper lighting but if your sole goal is to shoot run'n'gun 60i in poor lighting conditions then stick with the Sony.

October 15th, 2005, 01:41 PM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The Cine_Like_D gamma setting is more noisy than straight Cine_Like, so stick with that. Also, consider setting the Detail Coring higher -- Detail Coring +7 really smoothes out the edges of the noise and makes it less noticeable.

October 15th, 2005, 08:08 PM	#4
Preston Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wenatchee, WA Posts: 44	I believe the use of cine-matrix will exacerbate the problem too, particularly in low light, as it boosts chroma.

October 15th, 2005, 09:39 PM	#5
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	CineMatrix and the Enriched matrix both substantially boost the chroma, yes.

October 16th, 2005, 08:15 AM	#6
Jake Zalutsky New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 18	thanks, all of that helped, I have been shooting with really high chroma levels so that was mainly to blame. I lowered the detail level slightly, did +7 for coring, went down to -1 for the chroma level which still has pretty good color, and set the master ped at -7. (kept cine gamma and the cine color matrix) and the picture is really nice. -thanks everyone for the replys.

October 19th, 2005, 02:39 AM	#7
Stephanie Wilson Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sherman Oaks CA Posts: 255	Dear Jake, Wow. I'm impressed. Just got your camera yesterday and are already playing with the gamma, etc. levels. Good for you, panny stud. I'm not being a smart ass.... Truly admire your knowledge. In that vein, can anyone direct me to a decent website which might explain how to utilize the full settings of the DVX-100A.? The manual is marginal at best, and most DV websites are heavy with Canon info.... You guys who post at DVinfo are great of course, but I know you are smart enough to have other specific Panasonic resources. Give em' up, please. Please ?????? Thanks much, Steph