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Old December 1st, 2016, 11:01 AM   #1
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
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Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Hi folks,

I've got a UX90 and a UX180 in hand and am neck deep in trying to learn everything I can about 'em. If you have questions about these new cameras, post 'em here and I'll do what I can to answer...
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 12:17 AM   #2
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

I'd be curious to know if both or either of them are capable of burning in a time/date stamp into the image the way the dvx200 is.

Thanks
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 05:18 AM   #3
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Hi Barry,

Thanks for the offer. I am interested in the Infrared capabilities of the UX 180. The manufacturer's tradition has been to automatically set the exposure to the maximum possible by increasing the gain, setting the aperture to full and the exposure to the longest possible and finally adding a green cast. The reason for doing this was to make it impossible to use the capability in day light as some fabrics allow infrared to pass thus revealing what is below clothing. All this is obviously far from ideal if you need full camera control for natural history work. So my question is, can you control the exposure when the camera is set up for infrared?
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 07:48 AM   #4
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Hi Barry, how's the low light of ux180? I'm interested to know how will it perform compared to my Sony x70.

If I use both ux180 and x70, what's the best picture profile to match these 2. Thank you!
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 08:50 AM   #5
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Hammett View Post
I'd be curious to know if both or either of them are capable of burning in a time/date stamp into the image the way the dvx200 is.

Thanks
Yes, they both can. The cameras' operating systems are of the same generation as the DVX200, so all the menus are same or similar and they have many or most of the same functions. The UX180 has most of the things the DVX200 has. The UX90 doesn't have all those, but it costs a lot less so that's to be expected.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 08:53 AM   #6
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair Traill View Post
Hi Barry,

Thanks for the offer. I am interested in the Infrared capabilities of the UX 180. The manufacturer's tradition has been to automatically set the exposure to the maximum possible by increasing the gain, setting the aperture to full and the exposure to the longest possible and finally adding a green cast. The reason for doing this was to make it impossible to use the capability in day light as some fabrics allow infrared to pass thus revealing what is below clothing. All this is obviously far from ideal if you need full camera control for natural history work. So my question is, can you control the exposure when the camera is set up for infrared?
The UX180 removes the infrared filter from the optical path when you engage IR mode. But it then goes into 100% full auto exposure -- auto gain, auto shutter, auto iris. You can't set any of those in manual.

One difference from the DVX200 is that you can choose the tint, you can choose whether it shades the image in green or white.

(and I know you didn't ask, but just for completeness, the UX90 doesn't have the infrared capability).
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 08:58 AM   #7
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

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Originally Posted by Kenny Shem View Post
Hi Barry, how's the low light of ux180? I'm interested to know how will it perform compared to my Sony x70.
I don't have any experience with the Sony X70 so I can't make a direct comparison. In my testing, I'd peg the ISO of the UX180 at about 450. It's got big pixels and a nice clean image through the early stages of the gain spectrum; you can go to 12dB without much impact on the image. Of course if you go all the way to 36dB of gain it's a veritable snowstorm, but moderate usage of the gain is really clean. It's on par with the DVX200 for low light usage, if you're familiar with that.

I just looked up the X70's ISO and found this site (Sony X70 ISO/dB tests – TACTICALVIDEOWORKS) which set out to test it, and they determined it was 125 ISO. The native ISO on the UX180 is about 450, so -- if you put about 10 or 11dB of gain on your X70, that will show you what the native brightness of the UX180 would be at 0dB (assuming, of course, that you use the same shutter and aperture on both).

Quote:
If I use both ux180 and x70, what's the best picture profile to match these 2. Thank you!
Having no experience with the X70 I couldn't say, although generally scene file 1 is the place to start since it's a generally neutral Rec 709 image. However, with the UX180 you have extensive control over the gamma and the color; you can paint it to look pretty much exactly how you want. I have no doubt that with some time, a professional color chart, and a waveform & vectorscope, you (or someone) could get the UX180 to deliver a really good match to an x70 or any other camera within its price range.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 11:11 PM   #8
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Thanks Barry,
I am still a little unclear by what you mean by ‘full auto’ in this instance. As I said it has been common practice in cameras with Infrared capabilities to automatically set the gain to its highest, the aperture to its widest and the shutter to its longest leaving the user to adjust the lighting to suit. However I would like to think that ‘full auto’ means the camera is selecting a suitable combination of gain, iris and shutter speed to best match the lighting. I would appreciate any further comments. A simple test would be to try the Infrared setting in daylight – if the image is burnt out I will have my answer..
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 11:17 AM   #9
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

You are correct. The system says "auto" for all the functions, but in daylight the image is quite burnt-out even with a 1/64 ND filter setting, and the iris won't move from wide open.

It's possible you could use it in daylight by using a variable ND in front of the lens as your means of controlling exposure perhaps.
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 01:17 PM   #10
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Hi Barry, does the UX90/180 allow simultaneous 4K recording, LCD monitoring, and HDMI or SDI output? This has been an issue with many (all?) of the entry-level Sony cameras. Looking at a few of these for multi-camera streaming purposes.
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 02:38 PM   #11
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

So Barry, what kinds of exposure monitoring is there on the two cameras: waveform/vectorscope, zebras ( one or two sets)? How accurate is the focus in red function? I understand that the zoom focus function doesn't work when you are recording 4K, can you output to an external monitor in 4K and still keep the image on the viewfinder when recording?
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 03:23 PM   #12
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Haustein View Post
Hi Barry, does the UX90/180 allow simultaneous 4K recording, LCD monitoring, and HDMI or SDI output? This has been an issue with many (all?) of the entry-level Sony cameras. Looking at a few of these for multi-camera streaming purposes.
The UX90 doesn't have the Cinema 4K mode, it has UHD 4K - 3840 x 2160 at 23.98 and 29.97 fps. The UX90 doesn't have SDI output, it has HDMI (and RCA composite yellow/red/white jacks)

The UX180 has Cinema 4K (4096 x 2160 @ 24.00 fps) as well as UHD 3840 x 2160 at 23.98, 25, 29.97, 50.00, and 59.94 fps. The UX180 has HDMI and SDI output (and a cable socket for yellow/red/white).

The UX90 offers UHD recording, LCD or EVF output and full-res HDMI output.

The UX180 offers UHD or 4K recording, LCD or EVF output, and full-res HDMI output at Cinema 4K or UHD 23.98/25.00/29.97. In addition to the internal recording, you can have it simultaneously record a 1080p low-bitrate version (either 50 mbps or 8 mbps) on the memory card in the second card slot.

When in UHD 50.00 or 59.94, the UX180 supports internal recording and LCD or EVF output. But it can't support a full-res HDMI feed while simultaneously recording internally, so it outputs a 1080 signal during recording. It outputs a full-res UHD 50.00 or 59.94 HDMI output, but it can't do both that output and internal recording simultaneously, so it outputs FHD 1080p during recording, and when recording stops it reverts to full-res UHD output.

The UX180 offers FHD recording at up to 1080/60p with LCD or EVF live and simultaneous full-res HDMI or SDI output. The SDI is a 3G-SDI port so it only accomodates HD signals.

Neither camera lets you use the LCD and the EVF simultaneously at all, you always have to choose which one you'll use (the UX180 has an auto-sensing switch in the viewfinder to automatically switch between them).
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 03:31 PM   #13
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Cole View Post
So Barry, what kinds of exposure monitoring is there on the two cameras: waveform/vectorscope, zebras ( one or two sets)?
Both cameras have two levels of zebras, and the zebras can be continuous or momentary (only showing up for a few seconds after you press the zebra button).
Both have the "marker", a little box that shows up in the center of the screen accompanied by a % readout of the brightness in the box (pure white shows as 99%, black shows as 0%, etc).
Both have the "Area Y Get" function, which is similar to the marker; you can point to an area on the screen that you want to know the brightness of, and it'll report the brightness within the frame displayed on the screen (and you can set three different sizes for that frame, so it can be a generous sampling of area or a tight pinpoint-ish section to sample).

The UX90 doesn't have the waveform or vectorscope, it has a histogram.
The UX180 doesn't have a histogram, but it does have the waveform and vectorscope.

Quote:
How accurate is the focus in red function?
The focus in red function is programmable, you can determine the color and the level of peaking to display, in a range of (-7) to (+7). -7 effectively turns the colored peaking off. -6 is the very most stringent level - something would have to be in pinpoint sharp focus to trigger -6 at all. On the other hand, +7 is extremely generous, your focus could be "in the ballpark" and the peaking would still show it as red.

So its accuracy is up to you - you can be super-picky and have it only register the sharpest details (like focusing on the pinstripes of someone's pinstriped shirt) and risk that you may never see it show up under other circumstances (like, maybe it would only show up on the tip of someone's glasses, but nothing else on their face would be contrasty enough to trigger it). Or, you can go with a more run 'n' gun approach, letting it trigger in more generous circumstances. That choice is yours.

Quote:
can you output to an external monitor in 4K and still keep the image on the viewfinder when recording?
Yes, on the UX90.

Yes-ish, on the UX180. If you're recording 4K or UHD 24/25/30, then yes.
If you're recording UHD/50 or UHD/60, then the system can't sustain internal recording combined with LCD/EVF combined with full-res output, so it drops the HDMI output to 1080p for the duration of recording. As soon as recording is completed, it goes back to UHD output. If you're using SDI output instead of HDMI, you'd never even notice (since the SDI output is always 1080, there's no change necessary when going from standby to recording).
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Old December 4th, 2016, 04:43 AM   #14
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Thanks again Barry,

The Infrared answer was what I expected but not what I wanted. I guess I will continue using a rather cumbersome 'Orion' surveillance camera set-up for my IR interest.

The Panasonic literature mentions a wired remote for the UX180 that will be 'commercially available'. I assume this will will not be made by Panasonic. Do you have any information on this item?

Thanks
Alastair.
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Old December 4th, 2016, 07:46 AM   #15
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Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A

Hi Barry, thanks for all the valuable inputs. In a short summary, what do you think are the main cons of ux180? We've seen quite a few good features and it sure look impressive but I'm interested to know the cons compared to its competitors.

There's a new sizzle reel of UX180 by panasonic at this link
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