30p vs 60p at DVinfo.net

Randy Johnson · June 20th, 2017, 10:00 AM

ok ready to pull the plug on some new gear. I just got a Sony a6300 I needed something in a pinch, I like it alot. I am ready to buy my gear now I was going to buy the ux-180 but I could save a bunch of money and get the 90 maybe I can get 2 to go with my a6300 is there a reason why Sony doesnt seem to embrace 60p in 4K? all there dslr type cameras stop at 4K 30p my 6300 included I am thinking of get the ux 90 and just shoot 4K 30p but I think I will regret it. I do weddings, thoughts??

Pete Cofrancesco · June 20th, 2017, 10:42 AM

60p @4k probably takes too much processing who's by product is heat which is the Achilles heel of these cameras. Most logical solution is to shoot 1080p for slow motion sections or get a different camera.

Randy Johnson · June 20th, 2017, 04:00 PM

So what if I shoot in HD on the Sony and 4K on the Panasonic? would there be a big difference if I am delivering BR?

Pete Cofrancesco · June 20th, 2017, 06:05 PM

In FCPX I can drop in different resolutions and frame rates into the same timeline. The only reason I use 4k is to crop in or apply image stabilization. My timeline is set to 1080p @ 24fps and that's what I deliver to the client.

Cary Knoop · June 20th, 2017, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Johnson

So what if I shoot in HD on the Sony and 4K on the Panasonic? would there be a big difference if I am delivering BR?

BR does not support 60p (officially) so I am not sure what the issue is with a 30p limit.

For weddings you might consider 24p for the more 'cinematic' cadence feel.

Paul Anderegg · June 25th, 2017, 05:44 AM

I don't see any reason not to shoot 4K 60p if your intended market is television broadcast 60p works for both 720p60 and 1080 60i delivery, equally well. If you do 24p production, then 60p is reserved for slow-mo.

Paul

Ron Evans · June 25th, 2017, 07:12 AM

I agree with Paul. Only issue to note is that the UX90 only does UHD30P. You would need to look at the HC-X1 or UX180 to get UHD60P. They have better performance from a different sensor to the UX90. I got the GH5 that does all of the frame rates and shoot UHD60P all the time on it . The lowest cost true camcorder that does UHD60P is the Panasonic HC-X1. There is about a 50% file size penalty for shooting UHD60P over UHD30P and for the flexibility that gives I think well worth it. You can get the smooth look or put on 30P timeline and get a more film like cadence look. If your output is 1920x1080 or SD then you can crop into the UHD image.

Nate Haustein · June 25th, 2017, 01:09 PM

Besides the 30p limitation, the UX-90 crops the sensor for 4K recording. The UX-180 and XC-H1 do not. I found the 90 to be inferior and sent it back.

Paul Anderegg · July 1st, 2017, 03:08 PM

The 90 is also inexplicably 1 stop slower than the 180, requiring an additional 6db of gain to match brightness of a scene.

Paul

Ron Evans · July 1st, 2017, 08:07 PM

In round numbers the AGUX90 has a 18Mpixel sensor and the UX180/HC-X1 have a 9 Mpixel sensor. So the smaller sensor sites likely account for the difference.

Pete Cofrancesco · July 2nd, 2017, 06:10 AM

I use the 90 & 180 on 2 camera theatrical performances. Had a client tell me the 90 looked better. Might be due to the 90 was the wide shot.

While the 180 is a stop faster in the real world the difference is negligible. It's nice to have 60p but I have yet to use it on a job. Btw the 180 has a wider angle in 4k but again can't remember taking advantage of it yet.

I often grumble to myself about the annoying qwerks of these cameras but imagine quality is very nice. Im finding despite the smaller sensor these cameras out perform my canon 70d dslr for low light events.

June 20th, 2017, 10:00 AM	#1
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	30p vs 60p ok ready to pull the plug on some new gear. I just got a Sony a6300 I needed something in a pinch, I like it alot. I am ready to buy my gear now I was going to buy the ux-180 but I could save a bunch of money and get the 90 maybe I can get 2 to go with my a6300 is there a reason why Sony doesnt seem to embrace 60p in 4K? all there dslr type cameras stop at 4K 30p my 6300 included I am thinking of get the ux 90 and just shoot 4K 30p but I think I will regret it. I do weddings, thoughts??

June 20th, 2017, 10:42 AM	#2
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	Re: 30p vs 60p 60p @4k probably takes too much processing who's by product is heat which is the Achilles heel of these cameras. Most logical solution is to shoot 1080p for slow motion sections or get a different camera. Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; June 20th, 2017 at 01:01 PM.

June 20th, 2017, 04:00 PM	#3
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	Re: 30p vs 60p So what if I shoot in HD on the Sony and 4K on the Panasonic? would there be a big difference if I am delivering BR?

June 20th, 2017, 06:05 PM	#4
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	Re: 30p vs 60p In FCPX I can drop in different resolutions and frame rates into the same timeline. The only reason I use 4k is to crop in or apply image stabilization. My timeline is set to 1080p @ 24fps and that's what I deliver to the client. Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; June 20th, 2017 at 10:39 PM.

June 25th, 2017, 05:44 AM	#6
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: 30p vs 60p I don't see any reason not to shoot 4K 60p if your intended market is television broadcast 60p works for both 720p60 and 1080 60i delivery, equally well. If you do 24p production, then 60p is reserved for slow-mo. Paul

June 25th, 2017, 07:12 AM	#7
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: 30p vs 60p I agree with Paul. Only issue to note is that the UX90 only does UHD30P. You would need to look at the HC-X1 or UX180 to get UHD60P. They have better performance from a different sensor to the UX90. I got the GH5 that does all of the frame rates and shoot UHD60P all the time on it . The lowest cost true camcorder that does UHD60P is the Panasonic HC-X1. There is about a 50% file size penalty for shooting UHD60P over UHD30P and for the flexibility that gives I think well worth it. You can get the smooth look or put on 30P timeline and get a more film like cadence look. If your output is 1920x1080 or SD then you can crop into the UHD image.

June 25th, 2017, 01:09 PM	#8
Nate Haustein Trustee Join Date: May 2007 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,313	Re: 30p vs 60p Besides the 30p limitation, the UX-90 crops the sensor for 4K recording. The UX-180 and XC-H1 do not. I found the 90 to be inferior and sent it back. __________________ Nate Haustein PXW-FX9 / FCPX www.flightcreativemedia.com

July 1st, 2017, 03:08 PM	#9
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: 30p vs 60p The 90 is also inexplicably 1 stop slower than the 180, requiring an additional 6db of gain to match brightness of a scene. Paul

July 1st, 2017, 08:07 PM	#10
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: 30p vs 60p In round numbers the AGUX90 has a 18Mpixel sensor and the UX180/HC-X1 have a 9 Mpixel sensor. So the smaller sensor sites likely account for the difference.

July 2nd, 2017, 06:10 AM	#11
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	Re: 30p vs 60p I use the 90 & 180 on 2 camera theatrical performances. Had a client tell me the 90 looked better. Might be due to the 90 was the wide shot. While the 180 is a stop faster in the real world the difference is negligible. It's nice to have 60p but I have yet to use it on a job. Btw the 180 has a wider angle in 4k but again can't remember taking advantage of it yet. I often grumble to myself about the annoying qwerks of these cameras but imagine quality is very nice. Im finding despite the smaller sensor these cameras out perform my canon 70d dslr for low light events.