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Old May 7th, 2003, 10:52 PM   #31
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Bob, I have no idea about Vegas 4, maybe you should start up a new topic though, since they don't like us to go off topic. lol
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Old May 8th, 2003, 05:09 AM   #32
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Did the people who are talking about the blacks thought it was
too dark? My LCD screen here tends to show blacks a lot better
then most CRT's I have seen (computer monitors, not broadcast

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Old May 8th, 2003, 08:09 AM   #33
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Bob if you go with an PAL camera living in the NTSC-usa you'll encounter nothing but problems. For one the voltage/plug is different so out of the box you wont even be able to charge the thing. Then the issue of compatability in format making dvds etc.

Sorry for contributing to the stray....
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Old May 8th, 2003, 10:50 AM   #34
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Ok, got it. Done with that topic.
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Old May 8th, 2003, 01:39 PM   #35
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Hey bob, this trialer is certainly not a good representation of the DVX. And to all of you out there who think this trailer has a very filmic quality... you are insane. I agree with bob's first comment, it looks like a porno. Im not flaming the guy who made it, but to tell him it is good is just wrong.

The DVX is just a tool, if you use it wrong it wont look good. And to the guy that said you cant judge quality from a compressed video... what the f**K are u talking about? You absolutely can tell if something is high quality. Go look at a real movie trailer and tell me you cant make out a quality difference.

Bob, the DVX will certainly outperform the GL1... please go out and look for some other DVX footage. And its image quality will be superior to the XL1's. Ive worked with both and prefer the DVX.

To the guy who made the trailer... its great that u made it! Maybe its not good right now but youll never get better unless you keep making them.

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Old May 8th, 2003, 01:43 PM   #36
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Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one giving my true honest opinion.
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Old May 8th, 2003, 01:52 PM   #37
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Geez guys. . .Marc, what are you working with? I'd say next to no budget, like me (this is not based on the quality of your trailer, but just because a lot of us on here are working with next to no budget), and probably not the most sophisticated of lighting gear. The trailer looks fine! Does not look like porn! The only thing porny about it is that despite the fact that you used the DVX, it still appears to be 60i footage, and not 24p.

I've viewed a lot of people's DV movies when they post "Hey, look at my trailer," or "Hey check out my short." Marc's trailer looks no better or worse than any of the rest, and when the movie I'm working on now is done, in ten million years, it'll be joining their ranks.

When you're doin' it yourself, and you're not surrounded by crews with 20 years experience and HMI this and gobo that, you're not gonna get results that look like a really well-done Hollywood production. His scenes aren't flatly lit, and the shots are fairly interesting.

Power to the little guy Marc! I'm behind you. Peace out brother.
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Old May 8th, 2003, 01:55 PM   #38
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How can one person think it looks bad, and someone else think it looks good???

Isn't bad, bad, and good , good?

This isn't supposed to be opinion. It's more of a fact.

I'l have to show some footage of my old camera and do some 24 fps HD conversion to it and see how it looks.
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Old May 8th, 2003, 02:23 PM   #39
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It was fair. Aside from the sharpness of the video I didn't see anything particularly wrong with it except that there wasn't enough to really make anyone form an opinion. As a teaser, it needed more information. Not sure what the movie is about based just on the footage provided. Nor could I really form an opinion on the direction.

I seriously wonder at people who get such extreme opinions sometimes. Like hate hate or love love. Hardly any movie I see makes me storm out in a rage or swell up with the loving. It takes a particularly bad or good movie to give me a reaction like that.
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Old May 8th, 2003, 03:03 PM   #40
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Well, now that Mr. Wells has established that I am "insane" and Mr. Benkosky has asserted that anyone differing with his opinion is a liar...

Does anyone else have any intelligent, constructive suggestions to offer Marc other than "it sucks, dude"?

Emery, you appear to have the same camera. Stand and deliver some specifics.
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Old May 8th, 2003, 05:27 PM   #41
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I am not saying anyone is a liar. I also don't believe anyone thinks someone else is insane.

When I look at the trailer, something is really lacking. Most times it's hard to say what it is. I was comparing it to a porno because although some pornos have good quality, they certainly don't look like film, unless they decide to spend the big bucks and go 35mm.(Which is rare)

When looking at a piece of video I think that it's not so much "Opinion" rather than fact.

Opinions are for politics, religion, and relationships.

We are talking about what looks professional or not. I just converted one of my old analog movies to a quicktime 24 fps clip. Now if only I knew somewhere to host it, rather than putting it on my ftp server. If anyone can let me borrow some bandwidth I'll be glad to put my own work up.

This work was minimal lighting and edited IN CAMERA. I only added some text to it for dramatic effect. It was also mixed already prior to Vegas 4.

It's 35 megs, good quality. If you watch it, you'll notice the work is much more filmic, yet weak on resolution because of the camera. Perhaps I could have done some color correction, but that's not what I want you to evaluate.
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Old May 9th, 2003, 12:06 AM   #42
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<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Benkosky :
When looking at a piece of video I think that it's not so much "Opinion" rather than fact.

Opinions are for politics, religion, and relationships. -->>>

...and art, especially art. Doesn't matter if you call it opinion or subjective emotion or whatever.

I believe that most of us at this forum and the rest of the people out there tend to think fiction movies as an artform. And this includes all aspects of filmmaking, including "picture quality" (whatever it means).

You can always discuss the _facts_ about the technical and measurable aspects of a video. But you cannot flame a DV movie's picture quality as crap without seeing if the picture quality supports the overall storytelling.

Many aspects of picture quality are very, very much opinions.
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Old May 9th, 2003, 12:10 AM   #43
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As I think I stated earlier, I dont mean to put anyone down. However, like bob suggested, facts are facts. When it comes down to certain things there is no room for opinion. From a professional standpoint the trailer falls short in almost every catagory. I truley hope that you dont call yourself a professional ken. Do I think you are insane? No, just uneducated. The so eloquently put "porn like" quality is due to its poor lighting, terrible acting, worse cinematography, and un-eventful editing. The trailer feels over dramatic and anti-climactic. The music outperforms the footage and overall production value is just low. Oh and did I mention the awful audio? (not music, dialog)
The scene with the girl is especially bad in terms of lighting and "videoness." I feel like he may have had his master ped too low or he mapped it incorrectly in post. His black point certainly doesnt yeild 16 RGB or 7.5 IRE. Does it need to? Not always, it can be a creative choice. But its too washed out and dark, on my screen atleast (which is properly calibrated)

As bob pointed out, go look at the project greenlight trailers.
They are a good representation of what can be done with video and a relativly low budget. And to those of you who think "well those are the best of the best," is that not what we all strive to be?

"Marc's trailer looks no better or worse than any of the rest"

That just says it all. I certainly hope none of my work looks "no better than the rest."

Josh, dont aim to have your movie fall among the ranks. Aim to be far superior.

The fact is... 95% of what is produced out there is complete garbage. Aim to be that 5%

Im all about power to the little people... Im a little person my self. Im not working on huge budget hollywood movies (yet) but give me a $300 single chip camera and Windows movie maker and Ill make something that will rival this trailer.

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Old May 9th, 2003, 12:27 AM   #44
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I have to say, well put Emery. If you're going to bother making movies, look objectively at your work from the most critical aspect.
Good acting can surpass the worst of quality, proof, Blair Witch.
At first they made us believe it was real, although it wasn't it did a good job at creating a realistic atmoshpere of realism.

The acting is what made that film, not style or quality of the picture.

If I act in my own movie and I look at it, and it sucks, I don't throw a trailer together and say what do you think. I trash it. If you are going to bother making films you have to be either the best actor, or the best storyteller, or the best damn cameraman.

El Mariache sucked but it showed that he had talent and it was obvious. I didn't like Dark Star but Caprpenter had talent, thus came Halloween.

Anyways, I'm putting up a small clip of this dumb sketch I did in college. I am making it smaller than I did before because it was simply too huge to download. I'll post the new FTP in the other forum.
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Old May 9th, 2003, 12:39 AM   #45
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Can we please close these threads, i am affraid a few people in this thread are speaking completely out of their ass.

If movies are an artform, then there can't be a wrong or right way to do it, just different ways.

I watched "Friends like these", which i believe Bob Benkosky posted in another thread, Huhmmmm is all i can say, i think a good analogy is starting to creep into a few of the statements people are making here, and that is "Those who can't do, teach."

The thing is, going out and shooting a trailer, editing it, and trying to do something with it says a lot, it says he has got further than 99.9% of all the other movie maker aspirers out there, and it should be encouraged. Never ever put other peoples work down, you may critisise, but not put down because to others eyes your work could be even worse. Get it?

And so what if it dosn't look 100% professional or perfect, go study design, or even simple graphics, an aesthetic can be a wonderful thing that is unique and says something about the author/creator of it, regardless of populous opinion of its' final output.

If you really want to be elitist snob, than i believe you shouldn't be forming opinions or vocalising them at all, because you are so far above us we shouldn't have the right to even talk to you hey?

If you don't like the lighting, why dont you suggest to him a better way of lighting that shot, maybe he can reshoot it and try again, and learn, it is a skill that needs to be nurtured and ultimately learnt, so then you can be creative with it, you got to know the rules before you can break them.

Maybe you could also suggest ways of directing actors, simple hints and tidbits that everyone has to learn, but may not have yet.

If i keep seeing this obvious flaming of someones 'good effort' and their honesty of showing us for some helpful opinions on how to improve their work, i will put in a complaint to the admins, this is an adult place, act like one!

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