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Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant
The 4K DVX200 plus previous Panasonic Pro Line cams: DVX100A, DVC60, DVC30.


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Old May 22nd, 2003, 07:35 AM   #1
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AUS PAL DVX @ 25p

Anyone is Aus using teh PAL DVX running at 25p???

just wondering as im about to get one, but im still tryin to determine what the "real" difference would be as i only produce AVI, MPG2 and web content with absolutely no intention of going film...

basically weddings and short Project docos...

aparently the dvc 80 only runs 60i and wont be available to PAL regions... :(

any thoughts are greatly apprecaited....
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Old May 22nd, 2003, 07:46 AM   #2
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The idea of that mode is to facilitate a more film 'like' image to be taken.

As per your usage, in 1 way it would be helpful, in another not.

For stuff ultimately ending up on the web, shooting in progressive scan will give a slightly higher rez image, and also allow you to see right then and there was the motion characteristics of your footage will ultimately be like when it gets slammed down into progressive scan by your computer, it will also help you eleviate any interlace artifcating as a result.

Now here is the 'not so good for you'. For weddings and doco's it could be almost useless for you. Especially weddings. When in progressive scan it goes completely into manual mode, and will not allow you any gain control at all, AND no auto focus. To top that all off you loose another stop or 2 of light in progressive mode.

So you say, well when i want it to look more filmic i'll use the progressive mode and when i need it for weddings and/or run and gun doco's i'll put it into 50i mode.


Before i go on, have you already purchased it or are planning on getting it?

Zac
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 03:21 AM   #3
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Thanx for the response Zac

I'm still thinking about buying it...
i been tossing up between DVX100, the XL1s (which is too big and cumbersome for what i need it for IMO) and the Sony VX2000 or PD150.

Most of the stuff will be going onto DVD (thats what i meant by mpg2>... as for web content, theres alot im working on at the moment.. AVI as an archiving format.

but thers nothign i really want to work on in precise 24p (even so, 24p "per se"is not available in aus due to voltage differences so i end up gettin a 25p frame effect with a CineGamma ambience.. which i can probably duplicate in post...maybe)

as for the weddings, i will most probably be running it in auto, but tha defeats the purpose doesnt it.... the difference being that the low light shooting of this thing is immaculate and i like the way it operates
The viewfinder is one of the best ive used...

i was playing with one again today actually (first time i jsut glanced at it)
I was taken aback by the plastic casting as well as the extreme low weight...
but the 25p frame mode makes me wonder what benefits this would have over the XL1s frame mose... obviously the gamma settings (spark was beautiful) would make a difference, that and the wide angled lens saves any further lens purchases...but the investment is just a lil too high to warrant somethign which can be added in post such as the spark ambience

Its a hard decision to make as there are so many good cams out there, but as i already have a load of Pana batteries and accesories, it would make things a lil easier stickin with Pana...

See in Aus, (or PAL regions) 24p isnt available.. so the closest thing is 25p frame... which i can get from my trusty MX500....
I mean with the money, i could buy another 2 MX's and another lighting rig as well as have some change leftover...

thats the question im tryin to figure now..
Is it worth the investment when i can get a cheaper cam with similar features?

who knows.. afew more rounds with the unit, then ill prolly make up my mind...

But any thoughts or additions you may have are greatly appreciated
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 05:55 AM   #4
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Well i am going to come and say it, in my opinion for a wedding photography, the pd150 is the king.

It has the best low light, auto functions and extremely nice and quick auto focus. It is compact, robust and extremely well supported by companies and the industry. If you pick up a pd150 with one hand and the dvx100 in the other, you will actually frown at the dvx100, it's build quality can not even compare.

BUT when it comes to 25p, the dvx100 comes out and trounces the rest. It is a superior method to canons frame blending, and that of the mx500. It is a superior camera to the mx500, the picture quality dosn't even compare. Not that the mx500 is a bad camera at all. The dvx100 is also the widest with it's stock lens in the market at that price range, but it does suffer from barrel distortion at it's widest (not detrimental, just there).

The xl1s, for me now, it just getting a tad to old and expensive for what it is. It is a great cam, but 3x more expensive to tool up in after market stuff, eg, bigger tripod, extra lcd monitor, then more batteries, shoulder mount, and so on. Then add around 3k more if you want to buy their wide angle lens. You can always add a screw on one for $700 as well. It's low light is good, but a real hassle to carry around for the duration of a wedding, and gets heavy real quick. Don't forget the extra battery changes and things fixed onto the camera.

All cameras have their downsides, and they are ALL so close to each other at that price range, it comes down to the features YOU need. If i didn't want 25p, or never planned to use it, and was a wedding guy, i would get a pd150. They can be had on fantastic deals now.

If i thought i was going to use 25 for going to film, or a style choice, then the dvx100 runs out ahead of the pack.

If i still knew it was mainly for weddings, in todays market, i wouldn't get the xl1s anymore, there is too much other nice stuff out.

Zac

This is all personal opinion, anyone is welcome to dissagree.
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 11:12 AM   #5
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Thanx again for the reply,
"It is a superior camera to the mx500, the picture quality dosn't even compare. "

i totally agree.. no doubt about it... each cam has its use and teh MX has its, but the DVX is far FAR superior

as for teh build qulaity, i was a little dissapointed with the really toy plastic feel on teh switches as well as the carbon fibre houseing...
the cam i saw was shop soiled and the plastic was pretty much flaking and rubbing off... especially on the LCD panel... giving the camera a dirty plastic toy look and feel..
It is was all black plactic liek the lens itself it wouldnt worry me, but the body deterioration is a bit of a concern........ especially when your tryin to sell it in 12 months when it becomes superceeded....

mind you the cam itself is brilliant.. i could not really find fault with it apart from its exhuberant price... $8800 here in aus.. about $4kUS.. if it was going for $6k, i would not think twice about it...
I havent really gone too far into the Sonys, but i have seen the PD150 in a store and i was impressed by its build... never got to fiddle with it which was a shame...
I will research the cam and decide form there...

Another reason im considering the Pana is that i already have accessories for it, so it would save me afew hundred there as well...

as for frame mode, i was going to use the DVX as cam1, the MX as cam 2 (both running frame) Ive also got a couple of Single Chippers as spares...

Thing is, if the DVX is only running frame mode similar to the XL1s or the GL/XM or even the MX, theres really no point in investing THAT much money on a cam when i can pay less and get something which will give me similar results..

Obviously the DVX is superior and new and has that CineGamma as well as a refined CCD etc etc, but theres gotta be something that this cam has that the others dont...

thats what im trying to decipher...

jsut a couple of questions,
How good is it for extreme low light?
this is one thing i havent heard much of...

Also is there a way where u can set the zoom speed?
maybe i shoudl download the manual and have a read...

Also do you know if the belt clip battery would actually fit it?? I know Panas cams all share the same batteries, but i cant recall seeing any gaps for the plugs power cord to fit...
These battereis are great and i was hoping to continue using them..
For $440 a pop, i want to get the most use out of them...

see for DVD, i find frame mode gives a nicer cleaner look with next to no artifacts.. and rendering in progressive mode also allows me to keep the whole feel...

How much are the PD150's going for now?
I'll need to have a play with one and get the feel for it...

thanx again for your thoughts, much appreciated :)
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 11:27 AM   #6
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The dvx100 is $7990 or around $8200 with an extra large battery a couple filters and a softcase here in melbourne.

You can get a pd150 for around $7500 with extra battery, u/v and softcase.

The dvx has true progressive scan ccd's, it is not capturing in frame mode, it is capturing in progressive scan, or to put it another way, it is not blending fields through a algorythm, it is capturing full frames. In pal land we don't suffer from confusing pull downs...

2. Are there implications regarding 25p playback when using conventional monitors, non-linear edit systems or videotape recorders?

from the panasonic FAQ-----No. When you record in 25p mode on the AG-DVX100, the camera section is capturing images at 25fps; however, the recorder section is actually recording in the standard 50i (50 interlaced fields) format. The progressive images are split into two fields and recorded as a Segmented Frame and recorded onto tape as a standard PAL 50i TV format. This means they can then be played back on any standard PAL DV VTR or monitor and edited with any linear or non-linear system.

The difference between this technique and standard PAL video is that both “fields” are captured at exactly the same time, meaning that, not only is edge tearing and interlace twitter (the difference in motion between two fields per frame) eliminated completely, the images have a film look to them due to motion blur and frame stepping just like a film camera.---------

http://www.provis.com.au/products/video/ag_dvx100.htm

Found there.

I have not had enough extensive use of the dvx100, but i have lined it up with a pd150 in a studio, and the pd150 had about a stop on it before gain. BUT then after, the sony had a lot less artifacting in it's gain, so you could pretty much his +6 before you saw any give away it was using gain. Which to me is quite a big leap, the Panasonics was a little noisier, but again more something you and me would notice in critical testing and a client wouldn't have a clue about.

Zoom speeds, i think can be set, i am not sure, panasonic and variizoom sell a remote handle for it, like the sony/canon lanc controls.

Look, the sony is an older camera, but still fantastic, the panasonic has nicer features and dare i say it, a nicer lens, but the sony DOES have superior ccd's when it comes to interlaced footage, and it's build quality is something else.

That is what the sony has big time on the panasonic, wait until you handle the sony, you will curse panasonic for throwing such nice optics and features into that tonka toy.

Zac
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 04:43 PM   #7
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Why would you buy a camera that only does interlace (VX2000), versus one that does both interlace and progressive (DVX100)? Although I know the VX2K has its advantages, in the end, they seem marginal.
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 10:19 PM   #8
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Glen,

I wouldn't buy a vx2000, but the pd150 becomes a little more difficult to decide between.

Basically it has better low light and much much better construction, plus is already a proven camera. For weddings robustness makes a difference, where as it would be kinda rare to use 25p, because other than running everything manually with the dvx100, you have to watch out about panning to quickly and things like that or the image can get very jumpy.

And the constant abuse the camera gets being worked a lot like that and travelled alot, sometimes makes people look towards the tougher build.

Personally the dvx100 constitutes a much more fun boy toy :)

It is the brain sometimes that has to turn around and think about it's purpose.

I am sure either one would be great. And why the hell not, grab the dvx100, but get the longest warrenty u can, just *incase*.

Zac
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Old May 24th, 2003, 12:40 AM   #9
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thanx again for the input guys...

that DVX price is MUCH chaper than what i was quoted ($8800)... with the savings i could go a wide angles lense for the MX...

at that price i can consider it a little closer now price was amajor factor with me.. especialyl considering the build itelf... I would have thought that as the MX300 and MX500 are built like bricks, this would be too..
But i will deinately check out the PD150. I dont have an issue with viewfinders its just progressive/frame modes im really interested in, as Weddings (my bread and butter) are usually slow moving anyway...

thanx again..

PS- i couldnt find the link with that $8200 deal... any ideas?
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Old May 24th, 2003, 03:15 AM   #10
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peter,

http://www.tasmanav.com.au

give them a ring and see what they quote you. I linked you before to a qld mob that sell for $7,999.

Thankx

Zac
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Old May 24th, 2003, 04:53 AM   #11
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I hear you Zac, but it seems to me that all this talk about the PD150 being more rugged then the DVX100 hasn't been prooven yet, as I have yet to hear of any DVX100 breakdowns. The only thing that I am hearing is that people are saying that the DVX100 "feels" cheaper. Just seems to me that Peter would be giving up a LOT of extra features (by getting the PD150 over the DVX100) by simply going after people’s untested hearsay. But, time will tell :-)
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Old May 24th, 2003, 05:06 AM   #12
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glenn,

Heh, i told him to buy the dvx100 during the posts, but as always, its the tool for the job, not something else. Maybe for what he needs, a more rugged vs more featured camera is what he needs.

Zac
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Old May 24th, 2003, 11:28 AM   #13
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thanx again for the input...
see, for an extra 500 i can go the DVX, which will in the long run be more beneficial for me, as i prefer progressive scan images.. on top of that, the still i can take from it will be clearer with no interlacing artifacts.

i dont mind using manual settings to get these results...

too many toys, not enough money...

regarding tools, i find the MX500 pair that i have now to be quite good for what i do, and people appreciate the small size as it doesnt distract...
But ive also lost afew potential clients as well, as they feel that the cameras jsut dont have the "look" even after they view my clips and are blown away..
Usually i dont show them the cameras, but sometimes they dont even believe that the footage is taken from the MX..
On top of that, alot of my clients want to make an impression on their wedding (basically to bignote themselves) which is a shame coz their missing out....
Ive sent tasmanav an email so we'll see how much their offering.

as for the feel of the camera, most cameras are corbon fibre shells, but for some reason this one jsut feels a lil "weaker"...
In the ned, its a 500 dollar difference between the PD and DVX and id rather pay the extra for a newer camera...
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