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Panasonic LUMIX G / GF / GH / GX Series
4K and AVCHD on a Micro Four Thirds system camera with interchangeable lenses.


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Old April 27th, 2009, 06:01 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post
Thanks Paulo. I downloaded that master and played it using VLC. A lot of the frames, especially during pans, are turning to... well here's a frame grab (roughly 90% of the frame anyway). Are we seeing the codec fall apart or is this just a VLC problem?

Otherwise, the footage looks very crisp.
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Old April 27th, 2009, 07:26 AM   #32
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VLC doesn't have good h264 decoding, prefer MPC-HC.
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Old April 27th, 2009, 08:13 AM   #33
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Shot in moving bus of clouds outside, w/audio
YouTube - lumix gh1 movie test 20090426
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Old April 27th, 2009, 10:51 AM   #34
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Video does not look great?

Am I missing something? The samples I have seen do not have anywhere near the impressive look as the Canon 5DII samples. I have been saving up for the GH1 because of manual control and articulated view finder - but now? I don't know!
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Old April 27th, 2009, 01:05 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Paul Campsall View Post
Am I missing something? The samples I have seen do not have anywhere near the impressive look as the Canon 5DII samples. I have been saving up for the GH1 because of manual control and articulated view finder - but now? I don't know!
I think you missed thoses 4 footages:
YouTube - GH1?AVCHD????
YouTube - LUMIX DMC-GH1???TEST2
YouTube - Test: Panasonic LUMIX DMC-GH1 - Pt.1
YouTube - LUMIX GH1 - SAMPLE3
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Old April 27th, 2009, 02:19 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Paul Campsall View Post
Am I missing something? The samples I have seen do not have anywhere near the impressive look as the Canon 5DII samples. I have been saving up for the GH1 because of manual control and articulated view finder - but now? I don't know!
Please remember the effective bitrate of the GH1 codec is ~1/3 that of the Canon 5D2.
That's NOT 1/3 less. That's 1/3 as in 66% less. As in ~38 - 42 Mbps vs. ~14 Mbps.
You would expect it to make a difference.

And then you have the issues of sensor noise and lack thereof, speed (ISO), lattitude, lens quality....and much of the footage we're seeing so far from the GH1 is what I would call grab shots, if that, with little or no effort to stabilize the camera on any kind of tripod, monopod, shoulder mount, or anything else.

By comparison the Canon 5D M2 hit the market with everyone going nuts over the footage Vincent Laforet, a true professional, shot. And it shows.

Vincent Laforet

For me a valid comparison is how does this compare to a HMC150? Canon XH-A1? You can make up/add to your own list. Is it better at half, or less, their price? It does have DOF covered along with interchangable manual lens choices. I would definitely get a Pentax K-mount lens adapter, if I get one. I could use all my FA lenses and some of my DA's.
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Old April 27th, 2009, 02:29 PM   #37
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I agree that the V. Laforet footage is not a fair comparison - high production values.
But here is a small file version of a 5DII shoot in an orphanage. If I knew that the GH1 could look near as good I would buy without hesitation
Ostashkovo orphanage 1min Film. By Oleg Kalyan On ExposureRoom

Robin thanks for those samples I had looked at them before - but I was making a critical mistake. On YouTube samples I have to press the HD button to get a better looking HD viewing - makes a big difference - sorry for the mix up. I am more impressed now.
Paul

Last edited by Paul Campsall; April 27th, 2009 at 02:54 PM. Reason: New info
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Old April 27th, 2009, 03:06 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Paul Campsall View Post
I agree that the V. Laforet footage is not a fair comparison - high production values.
But here is a small file version of a 5DII shoot in an orphanage. If I knew that the GH1 could look near as good I would buy without hesitation
Ostashkovo orphanage 1min Film. By Oleg Kalyan On ExposureRoom
The Orphanage piece is very nice - but it has production values too.
I'm guessing every shot was on a tripod, monopod, or shoulder mount.
Most shots are static - the camera isn't moving even if the kids are.
At the 7/8 point you're looking into the face of a young boy and you can see light donuts in his eyes.
What do you want to bet that was a ring light.

I like the footage on Vimeo better than Youtube because more often than not you can download the original file. Gives a much better feel for the camera. Like this one:

http://www.vimeo.com/4354393
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Old April 27th, 2009, 04:04 PM   #39
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Very nice GH1 video:
YouTube - Test: Panasonic LUMIX DMC-GH1 - Pt.3
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Old April 27th, 2009, 08:18 PM   #40
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After thoroughly testing AVCHD 24p over 60i workflow with the Canon HF S100, I finally started to see the staircase issues. For that camera I won't care - it's for fun. But it got me to go look at the 2 source files I have of the GH1 - there's barry's and a street night shot. I was curious if they also had the staircase, and alas, they do.

Has anyone else pixel peeped on these source files?

-steev
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Old April 27th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Steev Dinkins View Post
After thoroughly testing AVCHD 24p over 60i workflow with the Canon HF S100, I finally started to see the staircase issues. For that camera I won't care - it's for fun. But it got me to go look at the 2 source files I have of the GH1 - there's barry's and a street night shot. I was curious if they also had the staircase, and alas, they do.

Has anyone else pixel peeped on these source files?

-steev
Those are not the same stair-step issues that afflict the D90 (and 5D Mk II, more or less).
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Old April 27th, 2009, 08:37 PM   #42
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Those are not the same stair-step issues that afflict the D90 (and 5D Mk II, more or less).
Yes, the D90 has it's own stair-step issues, not having anything to do with 60i wrapping. The 5DMkII has it's own issues with Moire, but I haven't seen it have this issue with slim diagonal lines - they are very very clean.
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Old April 28th, 2009, 03:28 AM   #43
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Barry Green posted frame-grabs of footage with lots of diagonals, and they did not have any clear stair-step issues. You can go over there and see for yourself. The frame-grab from Barry's footage that you attached doesn't show any stair-step issues; the problem with it is an artifact of compression, both of color space and of the video codec, presumably.

Still, these artifacts are simply unnoticeable in a motion clip. I remember that soon after Laforet posted "Reverie," people at Reduser.net dissected it and were able to find some very unflattering frames that showed the compression at its worst. And this is H.264 at 40 Mbps, which should be more than two times better than XDCAM EX! Yet those artifacts aren't noticeable in motion either. You're going to get minor imperfections like these in any camcorder under $5K, at least, so fretting about them is pointless. It's like you're really trying hard to find stuff wrong with the GH1 and what it can do.
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Old April 28th, 2009, 04:30 AM   #44
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It's like you're really trying hard to find stuff wrong with the GH1 and what it can do.
Hi Fei,

I think people are just trying to evaluate the camera's performance (including its potential weaknesses) in order to make an informed decision about whether to place an order; at least that's true in my case.

I have a 5D mkII - within a week of purchasing it I posted clips on Vimeo highlighting moire issues, flicker under 50hz lighting, and the level of jello effect. I love shooting with the 5D - everyone knows it can make pretty pictures, but I posted those videos to help people see what they're getting into, and whether the shortcomings are ones they can live with/work around.

Likewise with the GH1, clearly it can produce pretty pictures, but I want to know what its limits are, where the camera shines, where it struggles. Living in a Pal country I'm keen to see the GH1 perform well because the 5D's lack of 25p is a real pain. But I only want to place an order once I'm comfortable with how far the codec can be pushed, what level of artifacts are produced, and so on. I'm not expecting miracles, just something I can work with in most situations.

In the footage posted so far there are instances of the GH1 looking great, but other times it seems to struggle. I'm yet to determine whether in the latter cases it was operator error, a problem with how my computer is handling the master files, or real limitations of the codec/compression rate.

If this camera's a winner, I'm thinking of selling the 5D and buying two... in the mean time I'm very keen to find out what the GH1's foibles may be.
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Old April 28th, 2009, 09:42 AM   #45
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Hi Fei,

If this camera's a winner, I'm thinking of selling the 5D and buying two... in the mean time I'm very keen to find out what the GH1's foibles may be.
Josh,

It's early to tell but for shooting video on DSLR, I think the GH1 is a generation ahead. We still don't know at what point the codec breaks but I've looked at all the footage and user info - a couple of seasoned hands have the camera in hand now. The camera is capable of beautiful footage, manual control is just as we want, jello is EX1/Red One level, picture controls appear to be at least Canon/Nikon level with custom settings.

Bottom line, is unlike the D90/5D Mk II (and my HV30 for that matter), you don't have to fight the camera to shoot. Barring some shocking revelation, I'm buying one for my primary camera and ditching my HV30.
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