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Panasonic LUMIX G / GF / GH / GX Series
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Old April 12th, 2011, 01:58 AM   #1
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24p

Personaly i cant understand the need for 24P while filming weddings, IMO it has to be used with a tripod and panning kept to a minimum even more so so in pal areas,The extra resolutution is nice for certain things and i do use it at time for nature work where my GH2 is stationry filming,Most weddings are done to SD dvd anyway and any resolution gain is simply lost,i only ever ouput to HD asi personaly see little point in putting my GH2 footage back down to sd, obviously it is different for wedding event filmmakers whose clients mostly still want DVD.
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Old April 12th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #2
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Re: 24p

With the GH2, It is fully understandable that we might want to shoot in 24p: a high bit rate, and the promise of great looking footage with a film-like quality. These promises beckon to the the creative type like much like the GH2 called to us dreamers at the start of this strange saga.

But beware, all is not as rosy as one might think. "We must steer clear of the Sirens, their enchanting song, their meadow starred with flowers".

I haven't tried 24p. Well, that is not true, did shoot something once and it was too choppy and that was the end of it, for me anyway.

More than a few have crashed and burned using 24p for the first time for paid work, and they have abandoned it. After a bit of research yesterday, however, I saw that quite a few people are using it for weddings now, much changed from a year ago. Jim Snow, a knowledgable guy, is using it. But others opine that's not a wise option for live work. The specs of the format itself lend credence to that, as does the very Wikipedia entry regarding the subject.

Apparently people are making it work. But I'd like to see it on DVD myself, since the process for us is not even close to the same as a feature film, and the results are cannot be nearly the same. Unless I'm mistaken, and that happens more often than I would care to admit.

As we all know, Hollywood films are shot primarily in 24p on film, but it is said they use methods of conversion for DVD that are beyond the reach of mere mortals such as you and I.

So here's a toast to those mavericks who are sacrificing their all so that you and I can come closer to the realization of feature film quality for $999, while together we trudge the road to happy destiny, hand-in-hand.

Long story short, I'm happy to let them take the bullet. I'll wait and see how it shakes out.
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Old April 12th, 2011, 04:17 PM   #3
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Re: 24p

As i said i have used 24P but only for stationary work where my subject does any movement,Pal 24P is harder to work with than ntsc and many pal users me included moan at the lack of 25P,the people recording weddings in 24P must be doing so because they like the look not for the extra resolution as its going to DVD,For all my filming with a brace and monopod i use 720P as it looks better with them and on top of everything else two nature films i have filmed in the past week in 24P are a nightmare to edit my software just cant edit and render 24P like 720P.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 01:37 AM   #4
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Re: 24p

All the Canon DSLRs shoot only progressive. The choice is between 24p, 30p(NTSC) or 25p(PAL). There is no option to shoot interlaced footage. So many of those cool wedding films produced with DSLRs that you have seen were shot in 24p.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 05:21 AM   #5
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Re: 24p

It's not the interlaced aspect that I perceived to be a difficulty, but the frame rate. I thought the Mark V only shot in 30p, but I could be wrong, I don't own the camera. 30p would be less difficult to encode for video than 24p.

Nigel, do you know how the 24p files are generally handled? (encoded in post)

I
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Old April 13th, 2011, 07:54 AM   #6
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Re: 24p

When released the Canon 5D Mk II only shot in 30p but Canon added 24p & 25p with a firmware update. The 7D can shoot 50p/60p at 1280x720.

NTSC field & frame rates are all fractional so standard definition NTSC TV runs at 59.94 fields per second. 30p (actually 29.97fps) is 60 interlaced fields. for 24p (actually 23.976fps) it's split into fields but some are sent twice (so called 3:2 pulldown) also giving 59.94fps or near enough 60 interlaced fields with TV sets using 60Hz.

Here in PAL land it's much simpler. TV sets here are 50Hz & standard definition DVD is 25 frames per second i.e. 50 interlaced fields. 24p is so near our regular 25p that it just needs a little speeding up to match. Conversion from SD NTSC is more challenging as it needs to be converted from 29.97fps to 23.976fps by so called inverse pulldown or reverse telecine & then speeded up to 25fps
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Old April 15th, 2011, 10:29 PM   #7
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Re: 24p

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Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
It's not the interlaced aspect that I perceived to be a difficulty, but the frame rate. I thought the Mark V only shot in 30p, but I could be wrong, I don't own the camera. 30p would be less difficult to encode for video than 24p.

Nigel, do you know how the 24p files are generally handled? (encoded in post)

I
DVD's support native 24p. In fact it is the only true supported progressive format for DVD's. 24p is used for weddings. Maybe not as much as interlaced but like what was previously said most Canon DSLR users who shoot weddings are in fact using 24p.

24p shooting takes skill and practice and it will not happen overnight. It's sort of like riding a tricycle and then trying to ride a bicycle. At first it is harder but you eventually learn to ride with less wheels. The issue with 24p is because it has less frames per second you cannot move the camera in any old way. You have to take great care to move the camera at certain speeds. 60i and 60p video do not have this challenge because they have more frames which helps cover up shots that might be jerky with 24p.

24p is not easy to shoot with and you have to decide if you want to spend the time unlearning what you have learned.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 11:29 PM   #8
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Re: 24p

Nigel, I nelgected to thank you for your informative post, very good stuff.

And Thomas, yes your post also is quite helpful. People talk about using 24 modes as if it is simply a flick of a switch, and I guess I don't see it that way.

As you describe, it is a totally different shooting style and one that, for me, doesn't fit my workflow a this time.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 06:10 PM   #9
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Re: 24p

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Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
DVD's support native 24p. In fact it is the only true supported progressive format for DVD's. 24p is used for weddings. Maybe not as much as interlaced but like what was previously said most Canon DSLR users who shoot weddings are in fact using 24p.

24p shooting takes skill and practice and it will not happen overnight. It's sort of like riding a tricycle and then trying to ride a bicycle. At first it is harder but you eventually learn to ride with less wheels. The issue with 24p is because it has less frames per second you cannot move the camera in any old way. You have to take great care to move the camera at certain speeds. 60i and 60p video do not have this challenge because they have more frames which helps cover up shots that might be jerky with 24p.

24p is not easy to shoot with and you have to decide if you want to spend the time unlearning what you have learned.
Great points Thomas. I think you may have just resolved an issue that's been plaguing me for a while now.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 08:44 PM   #10
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Re: 24p

I would actually say that shooting 24p isn't so much a challenge but rather it forces you to be aware of how shots should be made. That is, fast panning or camera movements is not really desirable except for creative effect. It's more of an asthetic thing to shoot at 24p. It's hard for me to tell sometimes what frame rate was used. I've been shooting 30p since I started with the Canon 5D but we are switching to 24p this year.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 02:26 AM   #11
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Re: 24p

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Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Nigel, I nelgected to thank you for your informative post, very good stuff.

And Thomas, yes your post also is quite helpful. People talk about using 24 modes as if it is simply a flick of a switch, and I guess I don't see it that way.

As you describe, it is a totally different shooting style and one that, for me, doesn't fit my workflow a this time.
No I would not use it for weddings Jeff.
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