GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz

Jeff Harper · September 18th, 2012, 05:28 PM

The HDR feature on this camera makes is REALLY interesting from a photography point of view. Wow. I want me one of these. "To cope with the extreme bright and dark contrast that you get, for example, with backlighting, consecutive photos are taken with different exposure levels and overlapped. Blown highlights and blocked shadows are then deleted and a single photo is composed."

There are so many new features and improvements on the camera that it will not stay in stock anywhere for a long time. I predict it will be a phenomenon. The more I read about it the clearer it becomes this is a monumental release.

DMC-GH3 | PRODUCTS | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global

Thomas Smet · September 18th, 2012, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Thomas, the GH2 does have audio input control, the recommended setting is on 2nd bar. I use it always, and no issues for wedding work. I use mics with switches that offers me further control For loud environments I hit the minus switch, and for softer I put the mic on +, and it works really well. True there is no headphone jack, but for general purposes, especially since I use my cams and 3rd and 4th cams, they work just great.

I"m sure things will be much improved on the GH3, but I'm used the GH2 for a variety of projects, and it's come through every time.

Very true but it still didnt offer full control and was more of a cross your fingers because you didnt really know what was being recorded. The GH2 was lightyears ahead of the GH1 and honestly I have been very happy with how the GH2 handles audio. In fact very impressed by how well it handles my wireless mics.

When the GH2 however is your only camera it is nice to be able to listen to the audio.

Chip Thome · September 18th, 2012, 10:35 PM

I am sure just like everyone else, I've been trying to suck up as much information on this as I can. To me the biggest reason to upgrade:

DYNAMIC RANGE

I am so tired of washed out colors that I could just scream !!! So the DR is huge for me, if the DR improvement is HUGE as well.

I'm not shooting as often as most of you, if I was, I'd probably already have it on order. My first impression of seeing the images of it was "there's a lot of buttons and a huge learning curve staring me in the face". So I am now thinking this is an "investment" of both dollars and time. OK, I'm good with investing. Then it occurs to me that this investment has a lifespan of maybe 22 months, from first release to the next new cam announcement. If it runs like my GH2 pre-order, it's more like a 20.5 month lifepan from receiving to the GH3 announcement. That's when I wished that Panasonic was on a 3 year schedule for its model upgrades. At the rate I shoot at now, in 3 years I would know this GH3 inside and out and be ready then to move on to the next level.

I got my GH1 from Amazon on a weekend deal for $995 w/14-140. The GH2 I preordered from some place in Indiana and that was $888 with the beater 14-42, This one is going to be $1299 and they aren't even throwing in a piece of crap lens for that. That's $410 over the GH2 and $300 over the GH1 kit. So not sure what anyone else is doing, but at this time I am sitting on the sdielines for either actual DR comparative examples from regular users, or a super sweet preorder deal from somewhere. For $1299, I think the upgades that were announced make it worth it. FOR ME, I am not seeing enough time though, to be able to get to experience all this new camera is capable of, before the next one must have camera comes out.

As always, YMMV.

Thomas Smet · September 19th, 2012, 06:18 AM

If you have used a GH1 and a GH2 there will not be much of a learning curve. Most of the core functions will be the same. It just has a couple of extra function buttons and the controls are arranged a bit different. Honestly you would adapt in hours.

Bill Bruner · September 19th, 2012, 02:19 PM

New GH3 video from Emmanuel Pampuri. Basses lumieres (low light) with the preproduction Panasonic GH3. ISO 1600/3200 with fast lenses. A "FS-100 like" performance.

Panasonic GH3 Prototype video test 2 "Paris / Karl Line / Le Louvre on Vimeo

Impressive for a beta firmware camera -- but, truthfully, doesn't look much better (to me, at least) than a hacked GH2 with fast lenses:

Night Test Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm f/0.95 Venice on Vimeo

Jeff Harper · September 19th, 2012, 03:00 PM

I see a vastly improved dynamic range in the images, particularly with the girl against the lit up building. Superb.

Mike Leah · September 19th, 2012, 04:39 PM

Looks like 1299 body only.

David Heath · September 19th, 2012, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip Thome

I am sure just like everyone else, I've been trying to suck up as much information on this as I can. To me the biggest reason to upgrade:

DYNAMIC RANGE.

Just so everybody is absolutely sure what we're talking about, the dynamic range improvements are solely when taking STILL photographs, **NOT** video.

That should be clear from what is said about it:

Quote:

"To cope with the extreme bright and dark contrast that you get, for example, with backlighting, consecutive photos are taken with different exposure levels and overlapped. Blown highlights and blocked shadows are then deleted and a single photo is composed."

Note "consecutive photos are taken with different exposure levels and overlapped"

I'd also be wary about worrying too much about the 1080p/60. The GH2 resolution true resolution was close to 700 lines - which is within the abilities of the 720p/60 system. Having 1080p/60 recording in camera won't make a lot of difference - you may as well blow the 720p up in post. In fact, it may even be WORSE, you're using your bitrate to encode a bigger raster with no more real information in it - hence likely more artifacting.

All that said, the GH3 looks pretty good for what it is and the price. Just keep in mind it is first and foremost a stills camera, and in the consumer camp.

David Heath · September 19th, 2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

I see a vastly improved dynamic range in the images, particularly with the girl against the lit up building. Superb.

But she's lit - I don't see how it's possible to draw any conclusion about the camera dynamic range therefore? (And nice lighting I have to say.)

Don Litten · September 19th, 2012, 05:51 PM

Personal views did an interview with Panasonic at Photokina.

Here is a transcript:
questions:dieter-knuettel-questions [Photokina 2012 coverage]

I'm becoming less impressed with this camera all the time.

William Hohauser · September 19th, 2012, 06:04 PM

The video is interesting, not bad for available light (sodium street lights according to the film maker who did a good job posing the model to the lights). It certainly looks cleaner than the GH2 would be in the same situation at ISO3200. Dynamic range, it might be better.

Thomas Smet · September 19th, 2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath

Just so everybody is absolutely sure what we're talking about, the dynamic range improvements are solely when taking STILL photographs, **NOT** video.

That should be clear from what is said about it:

Note "consecutive photos are taken with different exposure levels and overlapped"

I'd also be wary about worrying too much about the 1080p/60. The GH2 resolution true resolution was close to 700 lines - which is within the abilities of the 720p/60 system. Having 1080p/60 recording in camera won't make a lot of difference - you may as well blow the 720p up in post. In fact, it may even be WORSE, you're using your bitrate to encode a bigger raster with no more real information in it - hence likely more artifacting.

All that said, the GH3 looks pretty good for what it is and the price. Just keep in mind it is first and foremost a stills camera, and in the consumer camp.

Those are two totally different things. What is quoted there is the form of HDR mode Panasonic added to the GH3. It is used to create a sort of HDR photography look which is interesting if you like that sort of thing. Dynamic range is totally different.

Also the 1080p60 I have seen from the GH3 looks more detailed then 720p. It isn't always about resolving detail. 1080p60 has more chroma resolution 960x540 instead of 640x360 and can offer a cleaner video because it doesn't have to be scaled up. Nothing makes compression artifacts stand out more then scaling them up. If you start at native size you never have to scale it up. Plus the H264 encoder in the camera seems like it is going to be much more robust then the one found in the GH2. There was a discussion on how the new encoder can use 8x8 pixel blocks instead of the normal 4x4 of the GH2. This helps the encoder be more efficient. It is reported that the GH3 should be able to encode much cleaner video at lower bitrates. Combine that with 50bits and the 1080p60 has more then enough bits to work. Other cameras have very impressive 1080p60 with only 28mbps. An extra 22mbits is huge, especially on a better optimized encoder.

Thomas Smet · September 19th, 2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Litten

Personal views did an interview with Panasonic at Photokina.

Here is a transcript:
questions:dieter-knuettel-questions [Photokina 2012 coverage]

I'm becoming less impressed with this camera all the time.

Didn't really see anything there that were not considered unrealistic rumors. I mean no DSLR has 4:2:2 so that is kind of a realistic outcome there. It is also pretty clear the person/people answering the questions didn't exactly have all the answers. Most of this stuff is right there on the Panasonic webpage and they couldn't answer it. It also seems like they didn't have time to get to know what the new camera actually does.

Typically staff at a trade show only know so much. Lets face it some of us can ask some real curve ball questions at these things. A lot of these questions were fairly deep that even the lead engineer may scratch their head over.

Don Litten · September 19th, 2012, 08:12 PM

There was a lot of no comment Thomas.
The one that really hit home was not knowing the Dynamic Range or if the HDMI was clean or not.

Aside from a few improvements, I really don't see where they will be able to justify the price.

I said this a few days ago. I can buy the Black Magic camera for about two times the price and really have the future camera now....

It may be after this is hacked if they haven't encrypted the firmware, and a workaround can be found for some of it's shortcomings, it may be worth me buying. But by that time the price will have come down anyway.

Now that's just my opinion and I'm not nearly arrogant to try to convince others to avoid the GH3. That'a a decision best based on personal need.

Thomas Smet · September 19th, 2012, 11:32 PM

I doubt I will upgrade either. In fact I just recently upgraded from my GH1 to the GH2. The GH2 will still continue to be a killer camera and if it already does everything you need then there really is no need to upgrade. I think without a doubt across the board the GH3 is going to be a better camera but that doesn't mean it is a necessity.

Dynamic range may be better but it also may be a bit too early for Panasonic to say by how much. When the Blackmagic camera was announced at NAB there were certain things the staff either couldn't comment on or just didn't know the answer to. The firmware at NAB wasn't ready either and even those who used the camera couldn't really answer certain questions.

You also have to be a bit careful with the BMC in terms of price point. You may have to buy a lot of extra gear just to make it practical such as an external battery system and extra SSD's. Some people have figured about 4k to 5k for a decent kit to get started. Still very cheap for what it is of course. Shooting ProRes is a decent option but shooting raw is going to be a pain to work with. I work with Red footage at work and we use Assimilate Scratch for grading. Killer material and grading software but a very cumbersome workflow and just not practical for every project and budget.

A "no comment" just means they are not allowed to talk about it yet. I honestly think the people there were answering based on the spec sheet and nothing else. Things like the HDMI output quality is not a listed spec and therefore very few people at Panasonic will know the answer to that.

September 18th, 2012, 05:28 PM	#46
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz The HDR feature on this camera makes is REALLY interesting from a photography point of view. Wow. I want me one of these. "To cope with the extreme bright and dark contrast that you get, for example, with backlighting, consecutive photos are taken with different exposure levels and overlapped. Blown highlights and blocked shadows are then deleted and a single photo is composed." There are so many new features and improvements on the camera that it will not stay in stock anywhere for a long time. I predict it will be a phenomenon. The more I read about it the clearer it becomes this is a monumental release. DMC-GH3 \| PRODUCTS \| LUMIX \| Digital Camera \| Panasonic Global

September 18th, 2012, 10:35 PM	#48
Chip Thome Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Green Bay Wisconsin Posts: 553	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz I am sure just like everyone else, I've been trying to suck up as much information on this as I can. To me the biggest reason to upgrade: DYNAMIC RANGE I am so tired of washed out colors that I could just scream !!! So the DR is huge for me, if the DR improvement is HUGE as well. I'm not shooting as often as most of you, if I was, I'd probably already have it on order. My first impression of seeing the images of it was "there's a lot of buttons and a huge learning curve staring me in the face". So I am now thinking this is an "investment" of both dollars and time. OK, I'm good with investing. Then it occurs to me that this investment has a lifespan of maybe 22 months, from first release to the next new cam announcement. If it runs like my GH2 pre-order, it's more like a 20.5 month lifepan from receiving to the GH3 announcement. That's when I wished that Panasonic was on a 3 year schedule for its model upgrades. At the rate I shoot at now, in 3 years I would know this GH3 inside and out and be ready then to move on to the next level. I got my GH1 from Amazon on a weekend deal for $995 w/14-140. The GH2 I preordered from some place in Indiana and that was $888 with the beater 14-42, This one is going to be $1299 and they aren't even throwing in a piece of crap lens for that. That's $410 over the GH2 and $300 over the GH1 kit. So not sure what anyone else is doing, but at this time I am sitting on the sdielines for either actual DR comparative examples from regular users, or a super sweet preorder deal from somewhere. For $1299, I think the upgades that were announced make it worth it. FOR ME, I am not seeing enough time though, to be able to get to experience all this new camera is capable of, before the next one must have camera comes out. As always, YMMV.

September 19th, 2012, 06:18 AM	#49
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz If you have used a GH1 and a GH2 there will not be much of a learning curve. Most of the core functions will be the same. It just has a couple of extra function buttons and the controls are arranged a bit different. Honestly you would adapt in hours.

September 19th, 2012, 02:19 PM	#50
Bill Bruner Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Sunny California Posts: 513	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz New GH3 video from Emmanuel Pampuri. Basses lumieres (low light) with the preproduction Panasonic GH3. ISO 1600/3200 with fast lenses. A "FS-100 like" performance. Panasonic GH3 Prototype video test 2 "Paris / Karl Line / Le Louvre on Vimeo Impressive for a beta firmware camera -- but, truthfully, doesn't look much better (to me, at least) than a hacked GH2 with fast lenses: Night Test Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm f/0.95 Venice on Vimeo

September 19th, 2012, 03:00 PM	#51
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz I see a vastly improved dynamic range in the images, particularly with the girl against the lit up building. Superb.

September 19th, 2012, 04:39 PM	#52
Mike Leah Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: east coast Posts: 91	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz Looks like 1299 body only.

September 19th, 2012, 05:51 PM	#55
Don Litten Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Richmond Va Posts: 400	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz Personal views did an interview with Panasonic at Photokina. Here is a transcript: questions:dieter-knuettel-questions [Photokina 2012 coverage] I'm becoming less impressed with this camera all the time.

September 19th, 2012, 06:04 PM	#56
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz The video is interesting, not bad for available light (sodium street lights according to the film maker who did a good job posing the model to the lights). It certainly looks cleaner than the GH2 would be in the same situation at ISO3200. Dynamic range, it might be better. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

September 19th, 2012, 08:12 PM	#59
Don Litten Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Richmond Va Posts: 400	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz There was a lot of no comment Thomas. The one that really hit home was not knowing the Dynamic Range or if the HDMI was clean or not. Aside from a few improvements, I really don't see where they will be able to justify the price. I said this a few days ago. I can buy the Black Magic camera for about two times the price and really have the future camera now.... It may be after this is hacked if they haven't encrypted the firmware, and a workaround can be found for some of it's shortcomings, it may be worth me buying. But by that time the price will have come down anyway. Now that's just my opinion and I'm not nearly arrogant to try to convince others to avoid the GH3. That'a a decision best based on personal need.

September 19th, 2012, 11:32 PM	#60
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz I doubt I will upgrade either. In fact I just recently upgraded from my GH1 to the GH2. The GH2 will still continue to be a killer camera and if it already does everything you need then there really is no need to upgrade. I think without a doubt across the board the GH3 is going to be a better camera but that doesn't mean it is a necessity. Dynamic range may be better but it also may be a bit too early for Panasonic to say by how much. When the Blackmagic camera was announced at NAB there were certain things the staff either couldn't comment on or just didn't know the answer to. The firmware at NAB wasn't ready either and even those who used the camera couldn't really answer certain questions. You also have to be a bit careful with the BMC in terms of price point. You may have to buy a lot of extra gear just to make it practical such as an external battery system and extra SSD's. Some people have figured about 4k to 5k for a decent kit to get started. Still very cheap for what it is of course. Shooting ProRes is a decent option but shooting raw is going to be a pain to work with. I work with Red footage at work and we use Assimilate Scratch for grading. Killer material and grading software but a very cumbersome workflow and just not practical for every project and budget. A "no comment" just means they are not allowed to talk about it yet. I honestly think the people there were answering based on the spec sheet and nothing else. Things like the HDMI output quality is not a listed spec and therefore very few people at Panasonic will know the answer to that.