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Old January 6th, 2017, 11:47 AM   #46
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

I had a fantastic discussion with two guys at NAB. They work for another large CMOS image sensor maker. One is a sensor engineer and the other is an engineer for the fabrication equipment used to make sensors.

They both told me that Sony is EXTREMLY difficult to work with and buy from. They told me that Sony will ask questions about a thousand different aspects of how you will buy their sensor and implement it....down to the minute technical details!

Then once they are satisfied with your implementation, they turn around and place all of your specs into the contract of sale so you cant change your mind at a later date with a firmware upgrade. Sony has their customers locked down hard.

I dont blame Sony. These are their hard earned pattents and expensive R&D work. They protect their business and their survival very closely.

Which is why the GH5 is so shocking! Is Panny paying an exceptionally high price to Sony for this tech?

Who knows? (Maybe 10 people on the planet!)
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Old January 6th, 2017, 12:47 PM   #47
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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Is Panny paying an exceptionally high price to Sony for this tech?

Who knows? (Maybe 10 people on the planet!)
Really who cares? I don't have shares in Panasonic or Sony, so as long as Panasonic continue to produce a tool I can use, their Business Practises as long as they're legal are of little interest to me. This stuff only matters to those with too much time of their hands to ponder such questions.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 01:29 PM   #48
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

Normally I don't care but I don't like the idea of one manufacturer dictating terms to another its one step closer to colluding together to fix prices. I like it when companies are competitors not involved in cozy relationships.

Omg I said "obstacles" and said dslrs are designed for photography! Outrageous! I also think Sony isn't closing it's doors after the release of the GH5.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 01:44 PM   #49
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

LUMIX GH5 - Beyond the Grid - Neumann Films




GH5 Firmware Upgrade Path:

4:2:2 10bit Available April, 2017

6K/24p Anamorphic Video Mode (4:3) Available Summer, 2017

(200 Mbps) FHD 4:2:2 10bit ALL-Intra Available Summer, 2017

(400Mbps) 4K 4:2:2 10bit ALL-Intra Available, Summer 2017

V-Log Color Profile Available at launch, Cost: $100
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Old January 6th, 2017, 02:22 PM   #50
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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Omg I said "obstacles" and said dslrs are designed for photography! Outrageous!
And in Cinema, there is often a Director of the Photography, so I excuse your confusion of where the line occurs between cinematography and photography.

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I also think Sony isn't closing it's doors after the release of the GH5.
That is hardy a revelation. Anyone who has seen the past few years new releases and isn't an idiot can anticipate that Sony will respond to the GH5 just as they did with the GH4. Even though I buy Panasonic, I welcome Sony innovation. How good would the GH5 have been without it. :)
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Old January 6th, 2017, 03:04 PM   #51
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

Steve I'm not confused. I know that a DSLR was designed for photography not to film video. You can dance around that fact and try to re-frame the conversation all you like. But I get it people like to argue here so keep refuting the obvious if you must.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 03:22 PM   #52
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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Really who cares? I don't have shares in Panasonic or Sony, so as long as Panasonic continue to produce a tool I can use, their Business Practises as long as they're legal are of little interest to me. This stuff only matters to those with too much time of their hands to ponder such questions.
Wow Steve, you not only not care about the politics of the camera business, you are actually aggressively adamant about not caring about it. hahaha

Ok, that's cool. Nobody has to care about the business side of cameras. I love everything about cameras and photography and videography,...including the business and industry aspect of them too!

C'mon Steve, is it that "really" that horrible to "ponder such questions"? ;-)

On Sony's future against the GH5. If the past is any indicator, when the GH4 came out, at NAB Sony fired back with the original A7s and they gave 4k to it's HDMI output but not it's internal CODEC. With only a 4k HDMI, that camera took the industry by storm and was a certified hit for Sony. They fought Panasonic's GH4 with a much larger Full Frame camera that could see ghosts and faint spirits in the middle of the night. Both, the A7s and the GH4 did very well for both companies even though the A7s was crippled by it's internal 1080 CODEC.

They might do this all over again. Maybe they will position an new A7-III, not with a 4:2:2 10 CODEC. Instead buy giving it's HDMI 4:2:2 10bit for external recording. again with a crazy sensor that has a signal to noise ratio that is ever higher than today's A7S-II.

This might be a way that Sony can compete (somewhat) with a GH5 without hurting their FS5 or FS7 sales.

I don't know but Sony's answer is going to be very interesting. (but not for Steve) Sony still has time to announce what they are building before the GH5 hits the streets. I'm guessing NAB 2017? (where the original A7s was launched) I have a GH5 on pre-order now but I'd cancel it if Sony announces a solid move against the GH5.

Last edited by Cliff Totten; January 6th, 2017 at 06:03 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 04:07 PM   #53
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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I know that a DSLR was designed for photography not to film video.
Imagine how stupid I feel having to tell people at weddings over and over again that I shoot video when they ask me to take their picture. :)
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Old January 6th, 2017, 05:32 PM   #54
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

Yes, been there, done that many times, Noa. I can understand it when they ask when I'm shooting with the GH4, but they even ask when I'm shooting with the LS300 and the Sony EX1R before that. Neither of those cameras remotely resemble a DSLR, but they ask anyway.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 06:32 PM   #55
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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Steve I'm not confused. I know that a DSLR was designed for photography not to film video. You can dance around that fact and try to re-frame the conversation all you like. But I get it people like to argue here so keep refuting the obvious if you must.
Oh I'm not refuting the obvious by any means. Still as someone who began filming Weddings with handycams, oddly enough, despite such cameras being designed for video only, I was enjoying remarkably less functionality than my current crop of DSLRs designed for photo taking.

Still the fact that the GH5 isn't designed for video taking is a major plus as it gets certain features that something like the Sony FS5 or Canon C100 lack. Despite both costing a great deal more. It's a funny old World with modern technology.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 06:37 PM   #56
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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Imagine how stupid I feel having to tell people at weddings over and over again that I shoot video when they ask me to take their picture. :)
I actually don't mind it happens all the time. I shot video of them posing then snap a shot. In editing I use a flash effect with the freeze frame. I like to mix in a few fun points where people interact with me. Sometimes you can capture video of people who are unaware you're filming them because they think you're taking pictures.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 07:18 PM   #57
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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C'mon Steve, is it that "really" that horrible to "ponder such questions"? ;-)
I frequent forums on DpReview from time to time, where discussions can be more about how well a camera sells and why it was introduced and what it means for the company making it, rather than how well that camera works for the individual owning it. When brand loyalty leads to arguments over which camera is best by virtue of how well it sells, or want features not because they need them, but because having them gives their purchase bragging rights over others, it ends up feeling more fan boy talk than practical day to day use.

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I don't know but Sony's answer is going to be very interesting. (but not for Steve)
What makes you think I wouldn't be interested in Sony's answer to the GH5. There's a difference between interest in where Panasonic gets their tech from and how they run their business and interest in seeing the specs of a new camera produced by Sony. Panasonic announce a new camera with a tonne of interesting features and suddenly discussion shifts to Sony's business practise and how and why it does what it does. Well fine, if that floats your boat. It just matters very little to me how Sony or Panasonic conducts their Business. I buy their products not their shares.

Some see cameras as a train spotter sees trains. More interested in facts and figures and history, whilst I see it just as a means to get from A to B.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 08:05 PM   #58
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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Oh I'm not refuting the obvious by any means. Still as someone who began filming Weddings with handycams, oddly enough, despite such cameras being designed for video only, I was enjoying remarkably less functionality than my current crop of DSLRs designed for photo taking.

Still the fact that the GH5 isn't designed for video taking is a major plus as it gets certain features that something like the Sony FS5 or Canon C100 lack. Despite both costing a great deal more. It's a funny old World with modern technology.
I'm grateful for dslr video which has given videographers on the low end access to cinema look and feel that had been previously out of reach.

Coming from a proper eng camera makes me shake my head at how some of these dslrs operate I just do my best to work around it. For example, my dslr won't tell you how many minutes are left on the card! It be like selling a car without a gas gauge!
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Old January 6th, 2017, 08:24 PM   #59
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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I'm grateful for dslr video which has given videographers on the low end access to cinema look and feel that had been previously out of reach.

Coming from a proper eng camera makes me shake my head at how some of these dslrs operate I just do my best to work around it. For example, my dslr won't tell you how many minutes are left on the card! It be like selling a car without a gas gauge!
Actually we have the video features of the 5D Mark 2 to thank for cameras like the C100, C300, Sony FS5 and 7 and the Panasonic DVX200 amongst others. Until then, sensors were much smaller despite being larger proper video cameras.

As for its limitations, they can vary from camera to camera. My GH4Rs has unlimited recording, so I get to see how many minutes are left on any card I put in. A feature I'm happy to see continues to the GH5.

I own a Panasonic AF101a and despite being a proper video camera, felt more restrictive than the GH4. Mainly down to lack of touchscreen, and the white balance and gain being toggle switches between 3 custom options. Okay easy to operate and in the case of white balance operational whilst recording, but frustrating to use in practise.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 11:39 AM   #60
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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I partially agree with you on this about sensor size. However, large full frame sensors are not considered "pro" either. (this is coming from an A7s-II lover.) The only real "pro" size has been super35.
Except of course that full frame 35 and larger are the only "pro" sensor sizes for still photography. :) So it loses against both stills and video in terms of sensor.


Quote:
I do think the GH5 is an "Oh $hit!!" moment for every other company in the industry. This camera is going to brutally twist everybody's arm on opening up very high end features on low priced cameras.

The GH5 is the proverbial gun to Sony and Canon's head. And this die-hard Sony fanboy just pre-ordered the GH5 15 min ago! (what a weird feeling that was)

CT
I don't think Sony is worried, they're dominating and on a winning streak. And Canon doesn't care because Canon never cares about anyone else ever anyway. But here's hoping you're right that it pushes Sony to delivery more!

And... I ordered one before even starting this thread! :D
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