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Panasonic LUMIX G / GF / GH / GX Series
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Old April 3rd, 2018, 06:01 PM   #31
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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Originally Posted by Cary Knoop View Post
Not if it is 8 bit.

They should read the memo: the 10 bit HDR recording era has started.
Here's a hint of what's to come:

the new Sony RX0, which cannot even shoot 4K internally, puts out a clean 10bit 422 4K signal via HDMI. It is Sony's first consumer cam to do that. The spec is confirmed by Atomos and by an independent test based on a Shogun recording from the camera, which can detect how many colors are actually recorded not just count bits.
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Old April 3rd, 2018, 10:40 PM   #32
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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Not if it is 8 bit. They should read the memo: the 10 bit HDR recording era has started.
So you're saying all the current 8-bit Shogun recorded A7S and A7R II videos aren't very good? Do you have specific examples in mind?
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Old April 3rd, 2018, 11:13 PM   #33
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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So you're saying all the current 8-bit Shogun recorded A7S and A7R II videos aren't very good?
Not for Log and HDR.
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Old April 3rd, 2018, 11:21 PM   #34
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

Well? High signal to noise ratio is still high signal to noise ratio, no matter if its 8bit or 10bit.

Now, I love 10bit just as much as anybody here. I love 12bit raw sensor data too. But I will never say that the A7S-II or A7S-III looks terrible because its only 8 bit. Its a stunning low light performer, even in 8bit. Nobody questions that. Not Doscovery, not CNN and not the BBC. They all know you can get night shots with that camera that you cant do with any other camera. (Before the GH5-S)

We'll see if Alpha can fight Sony politics and put out their first consumer camera with 10bit HDMI output.
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Old April 4th, 2018, 08:20 AM   #35
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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Not for Log and HDR.
So you can point out the A7S/A7R Slog2 footage out of this trailer? Can you point to specific segments where the 8-bit shows where it's lacking?

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Old April 4th, 2018, 09:33 AM   #36
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

That trailer is already botched, every fifth frame is duplicated.
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Old April 4th, 2018, 10:05 AM   #37
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

What does frame cadence have to do with color bit depth?

99.999% of everything we watch today is literally 8bit color depth. Even for us guys that love and shoot 10bit, everything is delivered and displayed in 8bit anyway.

Have you ever watched a Blu-ray that you thought looked good?

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Old April 4th, 2018, 10:08 AM   #38
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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What does frame cadence have to do with color bit depth?

99.999% of everything we watch today is literally 8bit color depth. Even for us guys that love and shoot 10bit, everything is delivered and displayed in 8bit anyway.

Have you ever watched a Blu-ray that you thought looked good?

CT
You made your point, I made mine.

I think you should not use 8 bit devices for Log or HDR.

I seems to me we have to agree to disagree! :)
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Old April 4th, 2018, 10:38 AM   #39
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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You made your point, I made mine. I think you should not use 8 bit devices for Log or HDR.
What's the last project you shot in Log and delivered, either in HDR or plan 'ole SDR?
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Old April 4th, 2018, 11:03 AM   #40
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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What's the last project you shot in Log and delivered, either in HDR or plan 'ole SDR?
When I make a recording I record it with an eye to the future.

But since you ask I shoot everything in log and most of the delivery I shoot is in HDR first and SDR second.
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Old April 4th, 2018, 11:12 AM   #41
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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When I make a recording I record it with an eye to the future. But since you ask I shoot everything in log and most of the delivery I shoot is in HDR first and SDR second.
And everything you have ever shot in Log is in 10-bit?
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Old April 4th, 2018, 11:18 AM   #42
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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And everything you have ever shot in Log is in 10-bit?
Yes, except for testing in 8 bit.

In my opinion 8 bit log is muddy.
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Old April 4th, 2018, 11:26 AM   #43
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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Yes, except for testing in 8 bit. In my opinion 8 bit log is muddy.
What do you mean by "muddy"? "Muddy" usually means that fine detail is lacking, both from macroblocking within low-bitrate 8-bit files (like AVCHD), or an aggressive in-camera or post noise reduction pass. Neither of those two suggest anything to do with Log.

Also, now that you've brought up that 8-bit log is muddy, you should be able to point this out in the A7S/A7R Slog2 shots in the "Street Cat Named Bob" trailer, because the muddiness should be exacerbated by YouTube, not alleviated (duplicated frames should not have anything to do with this, so that complaint is moot).
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Old April 4th, 2018, 11:33 AM   #44
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

Folks feel free to use 8 bit for log and HDR, I certainly won't and won't recommend it either!

I am not on trial here for my opinion and I don't want to waste my time on this any further, if you don't like it so be it!
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Old April 4th, 2018, 11:38 AM   #45
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Re: Answer this: If new broadcast deliverable standards demand Super35, what about MF

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Folks feel free to use 8 bit for log and HDR, I certainly won't and won't recommend it either! I am not on trial here for my opinion, if you don't like it so be it!
I don't care one way or the other. What I don't like are people who give dogmatic recommendations when they don't have any reason why, and you clearly don't know, other than that 10 is a larger number than 8, which is probably the fundamental part of the opinion.
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