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Old August 18th, 2007, 11:18 PM   #16
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95% of indie filmmaker/forum readers, who attend seminars and HVX BootCamps, are on the Mac, yes.

Overall, worldwide, it's probably more like 50/50. Which is still a startling statistic, considering that Apple's Mac is reported to only have about 5% of the overall computing marketplace. Regardless of how you slice it, HVX users use the Mac at an extremely disproportionately high rate!
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Old August 18th, 2007, 11:50 PM   #17
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I hope Panasonic representatives are monitoring this one ...
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Old August 19th, 2007, 12:34 AM   #18
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95% of indie filmmaker/forum readers, who attend seminars and HVX BootCamps, are on the Mac, yes.
At the Portland 48 hour showing nearly half were on Final Cut, nearly half were on Premiere, and a couple were on Vegas. Of course, this is more of a DVX than an HVX crowd. The Premiere users didn't mention if they were Mac or PC.

One team edited on one platform and did effects on the other. They came to regret it from a work flow standpoint. To many incompatibilities - still.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 10:56 AM   #19
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At the Portland 48 hour showing nearly half were on Final Cut, nearly half were on Premiere, and a couple were on Vegas. Of course, this is more of a DVX than an HVX crowd. The Premiere users didn't mention if they were Mac or PC.

One team edited on one platform and did effects on the other. They came to regret it from a work flow standpoint. To many incompatibilities - still.
On the DVX it was much more PC-centric. At one point we did a poll on DVXUser and found that 82% of DVX users were on Windows, 18% on Mac.

With the HVX it seems to have flip-flopped.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 11:01 AM   #20
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Can you think of any reason why that should be so? I don't see a lack of editing software on the PC versus Mac.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 01:18 PM   #21
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I can't see any reason for it whatsoever, and it's really puzzling -- but like they say on Wall Street, you can't fight the market.

The only thing is -- when the HVX was released in Dec. 2005, FCP announced an update that very day to allow editing support. Editing was more limited on other platforms for the first six months, so FCP definitely had a leg up in the early days. Now it's kind of the other way around and other editors much more tightly integrated with P2 footage than FCP is -- but the initial impression has "stuck" and so FCP remains probably the majority if not "vast" majority platform for independent HVX users.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 03:07 PM   #22
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The reason seems obvious from my prospective. People who are entry level, like myself, and don't have any previous experience or equipment and who do spend time researching things seriously come to two conclusions. Apple and HVX. There are also a lot of people entering the video market right now as prices come down on equipment.

That's what happened to me, I came to video with a strong technical background and the ability and desire to research products with a consideration towards their long term potential. HD is the future, like it or not (I don't). HDV does not make any sense to me. I see it as a transitional format. DVCPRO HD is technically superior. I am in a small market doing small projects and I have not used the HD feature of my HVX commercially once. (My family videos look great though!) I bought it for the future.

The Final Cut Suite is an obvious choice for my market also. Research shows that quickly. So, starting from scratch which puts all of the products on a level play field, it's pretty clear - Apple and HVX.

I love your book Barry. Thank you.
Jan - Please tell the people at Panasonic how important Apple users are to the HVX.

Last edited by Martin Iverson; August 20th, 2007 at 08:43 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 08:54 PM   #23
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Given that Apple's FCP don't edit DVCProHD P2 data in "native" mode - but must convert it to Quicktime format (correct me if I am wrong here), and that Canopus EDIUS Broadcast has one of the best integration around, I have a fishy feeling that I am missing the "dark matter of the universe" here. I watched my friend doing his P2 editing on Apple FCP - it does not feel that seemless as my Canopus Edius. I am wondering what I must be missing (if any).

I have also doubts that Panasonic could treat Mac's platform at equal footing to Windows. It is more than software here. There is also hardware integration - and these things have to be engineered with Mac + PC in mind, not just PC. I might have stated it somewhere else, but a pretty good example of this is how the P2Store is engineered. Right now, there is simply NO way to upgrade the firmware of the P2Store using a Mac. It must be done on a PC.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 09:26 PM   #24
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Given that Apple's FCP don't edit DVCProHD P2 data in "native" mode - but must convert it to Quicktime format (correct me if I am wrong here), and that Canopus EDIUS Broadcast has one of the best integration around, I have a fishy feeling that I am missing the "dark matter of the universe" here. I watched my friend doing his P2 editing on Apple FCP - it does not feel that seemless as my Canopus Edius. I am wondering what I must be missing (if any).
Yup, you are missing Raylight for Mac http://dvfilm.com/raylight/mac which allows you to do exactly that with FCP.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 02:14 AM   #25
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You missed my point TingSern. My point is that the reason that there are so many HVX users who use Apple software is that they are both individually leading the industry. I did not imply that they work together well. That is why my last line was to Jan (Crittenden Livingston) of Panasonic North America to implore the head guys at Panasonic to take note of the connection with HVX200 and FCP and start putting Apple ahead of PC's. Parity with a Windows machine would be ok, but it would be a lot smarter for Panasonic to give us preference. I tried to say that politely, but if you missed it, than others might have missed it too. So I'm glad that you brought it up.

Panasonic, please develop for Apple first, then see what you can do to help out the few people using a PC with the HVX in North America. This is not a statement made of pride arrogance of Apple. (I haven't had that great of an Apple experience personally.) It is good economic advice for Panasonic corporate. By my observations on this forum Panasonic has lost some HVX users to date because they have missed the importance of the apple/HVX demographic. Although I'm not pleased with Apple I would rather buy and learn a new camera, then buy and learn a new computer and programs. I'm sure that others would choose to change their camera over their computer also.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 12:28 PM   #26
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I don't know whether Panasonic is hearing your pleas or not. These decisions are taken at the very high level in the corporate HQ and aren't so easy to reverse in the field.

It might be that Panasonic lacks the Apple software developers? Writing programs for Windows are totally different from that of the Mac OS. The API are different. Also, Windows allows a program to interface to the h/w level at a lower level than the Mac will allow - without having to recourse to writing device drivers. Hence porting codes from Windows to Mac and vice versa is an en devour that few companies are able to do successfully. Adobe is one of those companies - but Adobe is a pure software company.

Panasonic, on the other hand, is essentially a h/w company with little s/w experience. Even if they want to support the Mac first - I don't know whether they can pull it off.
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Old August 22nd, 2007, 01:14 AM   #27
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People can be hired. People can be fired. It's a matter of management making a commitment to the project and acquiring the resources to complete the project. If it takes 10 programers to prepare a product for the Apple platform to have a timely release then management should have 10 programers working on it.

I run several business and this is not a programming problem. This is a management issue. I think that I can safely state that there is not the proper team with enough resources in place at Panasonic to properly roll out product to the large demographic of FCP users who own the HVX200.

I'm not writing this to try to embarrass Panasonic, or sling mud. I really do want them to take action to improve the situation.
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Old August 22nd, 2007, 01:25 AM   #28
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Well said. But we don't represent Panasonic. We shall see in due course whether they actually want to do anything about this situation then. I think they are trying - their latest P2 data management software is released for both the Mac and PC platform.
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Old August 22nd, 2007, 09:59 AM   #29
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Well, they obviously have some very bright and forward thinking people at Panasonic. Let's hope that they made the correction I've discussed a while ago and we are now starting to see the fruit of their labors. Obviously, change of this sort always has a lag time before results are seen as products go through the development stages. Color me optimistic.

Thanks TingSern. I enjoyed our conversation. It was both informative and cathartic.
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Old August 22nd, 2007, 10:58 AM   #30
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My pleasure :-))).
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