HELP: should I buy more P2 cards or sell HVX and buy an EX1? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
All AG-HPX and AJ-PX Series camcorders and P2 / P2HD hardware.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 12th, 2007, 08:29 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Conway, NH
Posts: 574
HELP: should I buy more P2 cards or sell HVX and buy an EX1?

Here's my quandry: I own an HVX200 and have a pair of 8gb P2 cards. I'm at a crossroads: should I invest more $$$ in P2 cards or sell the HVX200 and buy a Sony EX1? It seems to me that the EX1 is a better camera all around and ultmately won't cost any more than investing in more P2 cards. I really like the HVX200 but it falls short in several areas: low light, noise, LCD resolution, etc. Can anyone tell me why it might be better to hang onto the HVX200 and invest more in P2? 'Cause right now I don't see much reason. Where is the HVX200 better than the EX1 (at least on paper)? I shoot a lot of weddings and outdoor stuff if that's any help.
Bill Edmunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2007, 11:14 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Inland Northwest
Posts: 490
Dealing with LONG GOP intraframe is always that issue with me.

We had a Z1U. Great image.

Long GOP just wasn't worth it.
David Saraceno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2007, 11:16 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Livingston, TN
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Saraceno View Post
Dealing with LONG GOP intraframe is always that issue with me.

We had a Z1U. Great image.

Long GOP just wasn't worth it.
Specifically, how did Long GOP affect you? I am very interested to know.

Thanks.
Joel Chappell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2007, 11:40 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds View Post
Here's my quandry: I own an HVX200 and have a pair of 8gb P2 cards. I'm at a crossroads: should I invest more $$$ in P2 cards or sell the HVX200 and buy a Sony EX1? It seems to me that the EX1 is a better camera all around and ultmately won't cost any more than investing in more P2 cards. I really like the HVX200 but it falls short in several areas: low light, noise, LCD resolution, etc. Can anyone tell me why it might be better to hang onto the HVX200 and invest more in P2? 'Cause right now I don't see much reason. Where is the HVX200 better than the EX1 (at least on paper)? I shoot a lot of weddings and outdoor stuff if that's any help.
I wouldn't say any camera is "better all around" so much as "better for certain uses."

I used the HVX200 system for a solid year before switching to the Canon HDV workflow. I was willing to accept the trade-offs (Long GOP compression and susceptibility to dropouts; reduced color space; real-time capture, etc.) in favor or simplicity and economy. Still not 100% happy with it, but better for my style of working.
__________________
youtube.com/benhillmedia
linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia
Benjamin Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2007, 12:35 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,195
The Codec of the HVX MAY be a bit better, but I don't know if it will matter much. Maybe the HVX will give you a more filmic look out of the box.
I think that's about it with the advantages of the HVX, the EX seems like the better cam.
Mathieu Ghekiere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 03:01 AM   #6
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
Why not wait until it comes out and people put it through its paces before deciding?

The biggest points of concern for me are the long-GOP recording mode (it's about 33% more data than HDV, with about 40% more bandwidth, so it may end up being about as robust as HDV) and the potential for CMOS rolling shutter issues. If you don't need it right now, why leap on it? Why not let others be the early adopters, and then you can make a more informed decision?
Barry Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 03:04 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE
Posts: 749
Bill,

Why not get a P2Store at 60GB ... since you have 2 x 8GB P2 cards, you could record on one P2 card and get P2Store to offload the other. Then you can get your continuous recording needed for weddings, etc.
TingSern Wong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 04:18 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Billericay, England UK
Posts: 4,711
I think the move to half inch chips is what it's all about Bill. If you shoot a lot of weddings you'll know that low light is your enemy and differential focus is your friend, and the EX1 answers these with it's bigger chips and great 14x non-ramping f/1.9 zoom. Forget the long gops - when were you last attacked by them, huh?

Of course the move from the Panasonic will cost you dear and in reality few clients will notice, but you and I and everyone here will. The HVX was really a modified DVX100, pumped up and fed expensive cards. The EX1 is a rethink in very many ways, but of course it's the big chips that lift it out of the prosumer dof humdrum.

tom.
Tom Hardwick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 07:05 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Conway, NH
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Green View Post
The biggest points of concern for me are the long-GOP recording mode (it's about 33% more data than HDV, with about 40% more bandwidth, so it may end up being about as robust as HDV) and the potential for CMOS rolling shutter issues.
CMOS rolling shutter issues? Haven't heard about this... what is it?
Bill Edmunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 07:09 AM   #10
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
It's something any shooter should educate themselves on. CMOS chips expose differently from CCD chips, and the old rules don't necessarily apply.


For more info, just type in "rolling shutter" here on DVInfo and you'll find gobs and gobs of posts, mostly about the HV20 and FX7/V1U since those are the most prevalent CMOS cams out so far.
Barry Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 03:08 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Francisco/Paris
Posts: 121
Thanks Barry,
Great article, as always very informative.

Bill,
If you can wait, I'm testing/evaluating the new SonyPMW-EX1 sometime next week.
I own 2 HVX, I'm planning to run tests to compare the 2 cameras.
I'll post my results.
So take Barry's advice, don't jump in the water just yet :)
e.
__________________
Sights Sounds Stories
www.tinboxtwo.com
www.reardenstudios.com
Eric Peltier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 03:10 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Conway, NH
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Peltier View Post
If you can wait, I'm testing/evaluating the new SonyPMW-EX1 sometime next week.
I own 2 HVX, I'm planning to run tests to compare the 2 cameras.
I'll post my results.
So take Barry's advice, don't jump in the water just yet :)
e.
I will definitely wait! I'll be very interested in hearing if the shutter issues are present in the EX1. Thank you so much for doing this comparison!!!
Bill Edmunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 08:17 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ATL
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick View Post
but of course it's the big chips that lift it out of the prosumer dof humdrum.
With 1.9 on the wide end, this cameras DOF isn't going to be perceptually that different than a 1/3" camera. I mean, we're talking about 8mm film DOF. Your clients aren't going to see a difference.
E.J. Sadler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 08:31 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ATL
Posts: 65
If you shoot a lot in low light, the EX1 will definitely pay off in very little time and is reason enough to switch.

But if low light isn't an issue and you do a lot of grading, DVCPro HD is vastly superior to the codec than you're going to get with the EX1. With a 4:2:0 color space, you'll constantly be hitting the limit of where you can go with your grading, usually way before you want to stop.

But if you can fit a Convergent XDR into your budget, then the EX1 would be my choice. Low light performance, AVC Intra, and compact flash.
E.J. Sadler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2007, 08:34 PM   #15
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,896
The problem is that "some" jump on the typical response about all rolling shutters are the same. Yes, wait until there's footage and decide at that point.
Don't be persuaded and jump to the thought that Sony stuck the same exact CMOS shutter that's implemented in another cheap CMOS camera.
RED is using a rolling shutter.

The EX1 is going to turn a lot of heads soon.
422 10bit SDI
1/2 CCDs
1000 lines horz. rez
Not to mention, true 1080 full HD raster sensors, NOT pixel shift.
$6449 USD
Steven Thomas is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:38 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network