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Old March 12th, 2009, 01:20 PM   #1
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SD to P2 adapter?

People are using SD cards inside adapters to get around buying expensive SxS cards from Sony. Is there a similar workaround to the expensive P2 cards?
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Old March 12th, 2009, 04:55 PM   #2
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Nope. The SxS card is a lot more off the shelf than P2 which is a custom raid controller fusing SD cards into a new form of media. Not to say it's impossible but I've yet to see anything like this for P2.

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Old March 12th, 2009, 06:09 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by John Markert View Post
Is there a similar workaround to the expensive P2 cards?
As Noah says - a more difficult proposition. There's also the data rate to consider, the EX needs 35Mbs bandwidth, DVCProHD is 100Mbs.

I've recently been trying SDHC in an EX for the first time for real work this week and found it rock solid stable for normal shooting. I've also been able to copy clips card-card within the camera, and found they transfer across at about 2x real speed, so I'm guessing the limit for card plus adaptor is about 70Mbs. So fine for XDCAM, nowhere near enough for DVCProHD - even if an adaptor did exist.

But being able to have all the solid state advantages, AND be able to hand the cards straight across was something my client was extremely impressed by. It's finally made solid state viable for us.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 06:26 PM   #4
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We should also take into consideration that P2 was introduced in 2004 when regular flash memory cards was now where near the sustained bandwidth needed for video and HD. Today the flash technology are getting there, so we might see flash memory in SD/CF form that could replace P2, but not today. Also P2 offers a very good bandwidth with their new pci express reader, though costly you can edit more efficiently direct from the cards.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 09:15 PM   #5
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We should also take into consideration that P2 was introduced in 2004 when regular flash memory cards was now where near the sustained bandwidth needed for video and HD. Today the flash technology are getting there, so we might see flash memory in SD/CF form that could replace P2, but not today. Also P2 offers a very good bandwidth with their new pci express reader, though costly you can edit more efficiently direct from the cards.
I think we're there- at least conceptually with formats like the new SDXC format, which is rated for up to 300Mbps. The first cards are due out soon and Panasonic has its own planned. So I would think it's only a matter of time.

Secure Digital card - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old March 13th, 2009, 12:23 AM   #6
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Pretec unveils 666x Compact Flash Cards

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Pretec unveils 666x Compact Flash Cards: Digital Photography Review
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Old March 14th, 2009, 10:50 AM   #7
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Yep. Pretec is not exactly a household brand name but it shows you what the format is capable of.

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Old April 5th, 2009, 06:59 PM   #8
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It'd be great if panasonic put out an sd to p2 card adapter at NAB, even if it was restricted to certain framerates. If it could do 1080p24, 60i, 30p, 720p24,30 I'd be more than happy.
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Old April 5th, 2009, 07:23 PM   #9
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Evan:

I have been working with Panasonic on some shoots with the new HPX300. As far as P2 going away or being merged with an SD card adapter, not going to happen. Don't even hold your breath.

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Old April 8th, 2009, 04:11 PM   #10
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It's either wait for a Chinese P2 knockoff or wait for a portable HDMI recorder. The HDMI is also 4:2:2 color.
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Old April 8th, 2009, 04:23 PM   #11
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Regarding pana and p2, you might want to take a look a this...
http://www.panasonic-broadcast.com/e...IDEOBLOG_1.php
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Old April 8th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #12
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I remember the launch of P2, and how a big selling point was being able to put cards straight into a laptop - no decks, not even adaptors. Come ExpressCard and the dying away of PCMCIA the prophecies were for "P2 MkII" - same principle, but using the ExpressCard interface. It made sense.

And it came about - but from Sony & Sandisk, as SxS. The above link is interesting in that Panasonic even need to state that in spite of all the queries they are getting they intend to stick with P2. Reading between the lines, it's an effective admission that P2 is increasingly being seen as a negative, not a positive, and when (??) Sony launch a full size SxS camera, that's going to become even more so. Especially since SD cards can be used with SxS cameras for normal speed filming, but can't be used in lieu of P2.

Also telling is how little now gets said about the 200 and 171 - the attention from Panasonic fans seems to have heavily diverted to the 151. In other words, again away from P2. If Panasonic do stick with Cardbus instead of ExpressCard, I can't help feeling that it's a bad move for them in the long run.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 12:47 PM   #13
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I was thinking, when you can potentially buy an entire device like a HDMI recorder for the cost of just a single P2 card, something is wrong.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 06:25 PM   #14
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To repeat myself....People seem to forget a few things, P2 was introduced back in 2004 when there where no option but pcmcia standard and with pro gear you don't tell customers to get stuffed with their investments in P2. And until "today", Sd or Cf cards did not offer good enough performance for use with pro video.

Imagine a tv station investing millions in P2 in the start, it would be a VERY bad move by Panasonic to make their investment almost worthless overnight just to follow the consumer speed of new technologies. That also sends the signal to other large customers, we might change the standard after some time. Large investments need to be future proof and often that means continuing to maintain say an old interface as the pcmcia for the next 10 years.

Also underlined by the pana rep in the video and a friend of mine in the business here in Norway, P2 are made for pro users.

And the attention today are not turned at the 151 but the 300. 151 lack a few vital functions to even compete with the hpx170/hvx200. A step up to the hpx500 and above there seem to be a lot of satisfied customers, both in news, drama and freelancers. And as many broadcasters are investing or planning in the near future in tapeless workflow the interest for P2 probably would grow even more as sony still operate around the "tape mentality" with xdcam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kellam View Post
I was thinking, when you can potentially buy an entire device like a HDMI recorder for the cost of just a single P2 card, something is wrong.
Yes, HDMI are a consumer thing not suited for pro use in the field, hence the low prices. And if say a hdmi recorder lost power? Both expensive an propritary flash memory formats from sony and pana got features that ensure safe recording. What if you loose a clip? Often that might be more costly than one p2 card. Any hdmi recorders capable of shooting over/undercrank?
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Old April 9th, 2009, 08:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Magnussen View Post
To repeat myself....People seem to forget a few things, P2 was introduced back in 2004 when there where no option but pcmcia standard and with pro gear you don't tell customers to get stuffed with their investments in P2. And until "today", Sd or Cf cards did not offer good enough performance for use with pro video.
I agree that in 2004 there were no existing options except creating a new proprietary memory unit. The P2 may have PCMCIA form, but is actually a proprietary device or others would manufacture them. Too bad a simple PCMCIA to CF adapter won't work.

Quote:
Imagine a tv station investing millions in P2 in the start, it would be a VERY bad move by Panasonic to make their investment almost worthless overnight just to follow the consumer speed of new technologies. That also sends the signal to other large customers, we might change the standard after some time. Large investments need to be future proof and often that means continuing to maintain say an old interface as the pcmcia for the next 10 years.
I agree that you have to avoid alienating your pro/industry customers with large investments. But conversely, Pana needs to address the new more event based Panasonic clients with low budgets who some of the P2 cameras are marketed to. To make both happy, just lower the P2 cost. I don't know of any P2 user that would complain about that. You can ignore Moores Law for a while, but it will always drive the electronics industry.


Quote:
Also underlined by the pana rep in the video and a friend of mine in the business here in Norway, P2 are made for pro users.
What does that have to do with this discussion? Unless you are trying to say putting a pro label on a product automatically justifies a high price, regardless of merit.

Quote:
Yes, HDMI are a consumer thing not suited for pro use in the field, hence the low prices. And if say a hdmi recorder lost power? Both expensive an propritary flash memory formats from sony and pana got features that ensure safe recording. What if you loose a clip? Often that might be more costly than one p2 card. Any hdmi recorders capable of shooting over/undercrank?
1. The designation of an an item as consumer or pro has nothing to do with price except on a marketing level.
2. If any recorder loses power during recording, recording stops.
3. Over/undercrank is in the camera, not the recording device.
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