New DVCPro HD / P2

Chris Hurd · April 4th, 2005, 11:03 AM

Bob, I have a feeling that the new info that was supposed to be coming today was the stuff that was already leaked last week.

Hope I'm wrong about that but I bet I'm not!

Pete Wilie · April 4th, 2005, 11:07 AM

Will the HVX200 be able to shoot SD if a client requires it?

Or can I shoot in HD and easily downconvert to SD for editing?

Kevin Dooley · April 4th, 2005, 11:10 AM

According to the press release (I suppose that's what it was) it will shoot all the different flavors of HD mentioned plus progressive and interlaced varieties of SD. Who knows though, you might get a better picture shooting in HD and downconverting. Then again, with DVCPRO 50 capabilities, you might just be better off just shooting that...

Luis Caffesse · April 4th, 2005, 11:10 AM

"I have a feeling that the new info that was supposed to be coming today was the stuff that was already leaked last week."

Yes, that was my understanding too.
Jan made a reference on another thread that the picture and format info was the 'April 4th' info she'd been talking about.

"Will the HVX200 be able to shoot SD if a client requires it?"

Not only will it shoot SD, it will give you many options to choose from.

Both DVCPro and DVCPro50 at various frame rates, both progressive and interlaced.

David Ziegelheim · April 4th, 2005, 11:38 AM

Will the DVCPro50 have a better SD image than DVProHD?

On the drive vs. PC issue...a drive is smaller, however I am DV Rack addicted and have 2 5 hours batteries for the laptop. Unfortunately, there is no HD DV Rack, yet.

David

P.S.
I have received requests for more footage of this or that, him or her, long into a project (and sometimes after). Having the footage definitely helps.

Kevin Dooley · April 4th, 2005, 11:41 AM

You know, now that you mention DV Rack, I would think it would be easier to write a DV Rack version for DVCPRO50 or HD, since it is still based on the DV codec, versus rewriting to handle HDV, which is another beast altogether...

I hope DV Rack is paying attention...

Chris Hurd · April 4th, 2005, 11:42 AM

<< Will the DVCPro50 have a better SD image than DVProHD? >>

That's a Jan question, but I would be very surprised if DVCPro HD downconverted didn't look as good as or better than DVCPro 50. Depends on the process, I guess.

<< I am DV Rack addicted and have 2 5 hours batteries for the laptop. >>

I can certainly understand and sympathize with being a DV Rack addict! That's a great piece of software. Hopefully they'll make the leap to HD soon.

<< Having the footage definitely helps. >>

In certain situations such as yours, I can fully understand that too.

Ian Slessor · April 4th, 2005, 11:55 AM

Hi all,

I know that everybody's quite keen on the HD aspect of this new camera. Who can blame them?

I'm wondering, has anyone pondered what kind of framerates if you decide...OK, why would you?...but if you decide to shoot at 480p?

If you can get 60p at res of 720 maybe you could really overcrank at 480? Say 90 or even 100p?

Or am I talking crazy?

Just wondering.

sincerely,

ian

Aaron Shaw · April 4th, 2005, 12:24 PM

30p was the highest progressive frame rate given for SD. Don't know if there will be anything else. I doubt it.

I think shooting DVCpro50 is the best way to go if you want SD. No need for all the extra space, processing etc and it is much less compressed per frame than the HD codec (out of sheer necessity).

David Ziegelheim · April 4th, 2005, 12:32 PM

I though DVCPro50 supported 10 bit quantization, and DVCProHD supported 8. Which is why I thought the DVCPro50 may have better image.

David

P.S.
Ian, the DV format supports 60i NTSC or 50i PAL. 30p, 25p, and 24p are adaptations of that format. It would not be possible to store an image with a higher frame rate in that format.

Barry Green · April 4th, 2005, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Will the HVX200 be able to shoot SD if a client requires it?

Yes, and it will be able to shoot SD at the best-quality SD you can get for under $20,000.

It supports two different SD recording formats, either DVCPRO (which is the same as DV, basically) and the DigiBeta-quality DVCPRO50, which provides for less compression and twice the color resolution of any DV camera. It's the same format that's used in the $20,000 SPX800 and the $25,000 SDX900.

So yes, SD is not only possible with the HVX, but it'll probably be the best SD you can buy for less than $20,000.

Aaron Koolen · April 4th, 2005, 02:25 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Brad Abrahams : Just saw this posted on dvxuser. A firewire drive enclosure that includes a rechargeable lithium-ion battery with 10+ hours of usage per charge. This would be perfect if the hvx streams the data over firewire:

http://www.macpower.com/productdetai...&catid=311,316 -->>>

But just plugging in a drive won't work. Something at the other end needs to decode the IEEE1394 stream, and write a filesytem.

Aaron

Kevin Dooley · April 4th, 2005, 02:26 PM

Well, maybe, maybe not... the camera clearly writes files itself, as that's what it stores to the P2 cards... why couldn't it just send those files over firewire to an external drive, same as if you hooked it up to your computer?

Aaron Koolen · April 4th, 2005, 02:33 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Dooley : Well, maybe, maybe not... the camera clearly writes files itself, as that's what it stores to the P2 cards... why couldn't it just send those files over firewire to an external drive, same as if you hooked it up to your computer? -->>>

Anything's possible for sure! I just find it hard to believe they'll do that. Haven't they just teamed up with Firestore for some thing? What I could imagine happening is some tight integration between the camera and a firestore so they work all sexily together.

Aaron

Pete Wilie · April 4th, 2005, 02:35 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green :
It supports two different SD recording formats, either DVCPRO (which is the same as DV, basically) and the DigiBeta-quality DVCPRO50, which provides for less compression and twice the color resolution of any DV camera.
-->>>

Thanks Barry, that was very helpful.

So does this mean the HVX can shoot SD at the 4:2:2 sampling ratios, whereas MiniDV is 4:1:1?

April 4th, 2005, 11:03 AM	#166
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Bob, I have a feeling that the new info that was supposed to be coming today was the stuff that was already leaked last week. Hope I'm wrong about that but I bet I'm not! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 4th, 2005, 11:10 AM	#168
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	According to the press release (I suppose that's what it was) it will shoot all the different flavors of HD mentioned plus progressive and interlaced varieties of SD. Who knows though, you might get a better picture shooting in HD and downconverting. Then again, with DVCPRO 50 capabilities, you might just be better off just shooting that... __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 4th, 2005, 11:10 AM	#169
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"I have a feeling that the new info that was supposed to be coming today was the stuff that was already leaked last week." Yes, that was my understanding too. Jan made a reference on another thread that the picture and format info was the 'April 4th' info she'd been talking about. "Will the HVX200 be able to shoot SD if a client requires it?" Not only will it shoot SD, it will give you many options to choose from. Both DVCPro and DVCPro50 at various frame rates, both progressive and interlaced. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

April 4th, 2005, 11:41 AM	#171
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	You know, now that you mention DV Rack, I would think it would be easier to write a DV Rack version for DVCPRO50 or HD, since it is still based on the DV codec, versus rewriting to handle HDV, which is another beast altogether... I hope DV Rack is paying attention... __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 4th, 2005, 11:42 AM	#172
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	<< Will the DVCPro50 have a better SD image than DVProHD? >> That's a Jan question, but I would be very surprised if DVCPro HD downconverted didn't look as good as or better than DVCPro 50. Depends on the process, I guess. << I am DV Rack addicted and have 2 5 hours batteries for the laptop. >> I can certainly understand and sympathize with being a DV Rack addict! That's a great piece of software. Hopefully they'll make the leap to HD soon. << Having the footage definitely helps. >> In certain situations such as yours, I can fully understand that too. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 4th, 2005, 11:07 AM	#167
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	Will the HVX200 be able to shoot SD if a client requires it? Or can I shoot in HD and easily downconvert to SD for editing?

April 4th, 2005, 11:38 AM	#170
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	Will the DVCPro50 have a better SD image than DVProHD? On the drive vs. PC issue...a drive is smaller, however I am DV Rack addicted and have 2 5 hours batteries for the laptop. Unfortunately, there is no HD DV Rack, yet. David P.S. I have received requests for more footage of this or that, him or her, long into a project (and sometimes after). Having the footage definitely helps.

April 4th, 2005, 11:55 AM	#173
Ian Slessor Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South-Central Ontario, Canada Posts: 216	Framerates at SD resolution? Hi all, I know that everybody's quite keen on the HD aspect of this new camera. Who can blame them? I'm wondering, has anyone pondered what kind of framerates if you decide...OK, why would you?...but if you decide to shoot at 480p? If you can get 60p at res of 720 maybe you could really overcrank at 480? Say 90 or even 100p? Or am I talking crazy? Just wondering. sincerely, ian

April 4th, 2005, 12:24 PM	#174
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	30p was the highest progressive frame rate given for SD. Don't know if there will be anything else. I doubt it. I think shooting DVCpro50 is the best way to go if you want SD. No need for all the extra space, processing etc and it is much less compressed per frame than the HD codec (out of sheer necessity).

April 4th, 2005, 12:32 PM	#175
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	I though DVCPro50 supported 10 bit quantization, and DVCProHD supported 8. Which is why I thought the DVCPro50 may have better image. David P.S. Ian, the DV format supports 60i NTSC or 50i PAL. 30p, 25p, and 24p are adaptations of that format. It would not be possible to store an image with a higher frame rate in that format.

April 4th, 2005, 02:25 PM	#177
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	<<<-- Originally posted by Brad Abrahams : Just saw this posted on dvxuser. A firewire drive enclosure that includes a rechargeable lithium-ion battery with 10+ hours of usage per charge. This would be perfect if the hvx streams the data over firewire: http://www.macpower.com/productdetai...&catid=311,316 -->>> But just plugging in a drive won't work. Something at the other end needs to decode the IEEE1394 stream, and write a filesytem. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

April 4th, 2005, 02:26 PM	#178
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	Well, maybe, maybe not... the camera clearly writes files itself, as that's what it stores to the P2 cards... why couldn't it just send those files over firewire to an external drive, same as if you hooked it up to your computer? __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 4th, 2005, 02:33 PM	#179
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Dooley : Well, maybe, maybe not... the camera clearly writes files itself, as that's what it stores to the P2 cards... why couldn't it just send those files over firewire to an external drive, same as if you hooked it up to your computer? -->>> Anything's possible for sure! I just find it hard to believe they'll do that. Haven't they just teamed up with Firestore for some thing? What I could imagine happening is some tight integration between the camera and a firestore so they work all sexily together. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

April 4th, 2005, 02:35 PM	#180
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : It supports two different SD recording formats, either DVCPRO (which is the same as DV, basically) and the DigiBeta-quality DVCPRO50, which provides for less compression and twice the color resolution of any DV camera. -->>> Thanks Barry, that was very helpful. So does this mean the HVX can shoot SD at the 4:2:2 sampling ratios, whereas MiniDV is 4:1:1?