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Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
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Old February 14th, 2005, 12:52 PM   #1
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P2 Media Information

Panasonic's P2 solid state flash memory recording system is basically an array of four high-speed, high-capacity SD (Secure Digital) memory cards arranged within a PCMCIA card adapter, which fits easily into a PC card slot within PC-slot-equipped computers and cameras. The advantage is that the SD cards are rewrittable many thousands of times, and their data can rapidly be transferred into an editing system (eliminating the need for "video capture," previously limited to real-time speed).

Check out Panasonic's P2 information page at:
https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro.../p2/index.html
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Old February 14th, 2005, 02:26 PM   #2
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Am I the only one not really buying into the P2 trend?

Gee, memorycards = expensive, special made memorycards = really expensive. If a 4gig card sell for more then $100 it's too much..

Why is this to much?
I am one off those people that wont make due with running arund with a laptop in my back-pack. I need to stay mobile and I really don't want to carry more then I have to. (not to mention the additional time it takes to dump every 10 minutes) They might have a fresh gadget that tranfers the p2 info into a larger drive.. (but we have to carry that around too, and we also need to buy it)

I travle a lot and I sure don't want to have to bring a laptop, have to tranfer the cards into the laptop and when I come home (have 100gigs of video) and tranfer the 100gigs to my ordinary editing computer.. Too many steps and time consuming

So what I see is:

* low recording times (around 10 minutes)
* high priced cards
* Need to buy and carry around additional equipment

I REALLY hope the panasonic people have a good solution for this.
If not, may them burn in hell for making a awsome camera and not be smart enough to see that people need to be able to shoot for long periods of time without having to dump to aditional equipment.

A smart solution could be:

* Bundle with the camera package 5x100minutes worth P2 cards
* Bundle with the camera package a 500gig hardrive in a small and lightweight case with a firewire interface to transfer to computer and a p2 interface to dump.

But we all know that's not going to happen..

Instead we buy a $5000 camera with $5000 worth of additional equipment..


I really hope they have a good solution to not having to dump every 10 minutes.. Anyone have any toughts to this?
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Old February 14th, 2005, 02:35 PM   #3
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The only problem I would have is the P2 card is only good for about 8 to 16 minutes. If the cards where cheap that might be ok. But if the cards are in the thousands I think this camera will be out of reach for small guys like myself.

I wonder if you will be able to plug the camera into the computer and download. The picture shows the P2 card sliding into a slot on a computer. My computer can't do that.

3-P2 cards $12,000

new Mac $2,000

New camera $5,000 (just a wild guess)

Divorce lawyer, $2,000 ( another guess) after the wife found out I spent that much!!
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Old February 14th, 2005, 02:38 PM   #4
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Hopefully it'll have FireWire. If it does, think: FireStore. Could ease the strain on the marriage.
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Old February 15th, 2005, 03:48 AM   #5
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still, additional equipment to carry around.. and to buy?
Is it only me, or do everyone else accept the additioal thing/weight/cost?
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Old February 15th, 2005, 07:59 AM   #6
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interesting i started a thread about archiving issues with the p2 system, but shooting would be just as problematic, and additional hardrive would eat up more battery juice, or need its own power supply, more wieght...

i guess shooting pro 50 with the new cam would be more like shooting on film, short and expensive with a lot to carry....
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Old February 15th, 2005, 08:26 AM   #7
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If the gear is small enough, one decent shoulder support could carry it all, probably.
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Old February 15th, 2005, 08:30 PM   #8
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Its back to the *tape* *cough*... errr i meant drawing board..

:) may be panny might sock us all and use DVCproHD mini tape vesion!
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Old February 15th, 2005, 08:49 PM   #9
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Well, Jan from Panasonic said:

No tape, just P2..
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Old February 15th, 2005, 10:25 PM   #10
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I thought she said on Feb 14th:

Unfortunately I really am under a lock down on information and cannot answer the question. I really wish I could. I am authorized to say three things. under $10,000, DVCPRO25/50/HD and 24P.
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Old February 15th, 2005, 11:27 PM   #11
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She did say that, John... but conceivably, all three of those formats could be going to P2.
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Old February 16th, 2005, 12:22 AM   #12
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Yes, or to tape. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the camera would at least have a miniDV tape section in it, but maybe the HD and DVCPRO-50 would only record to memory (or perhaps firewire to an external recorder?)

Speculation is just that -- speculation. We don't know what they have planned for us yet. Recently they've been on a pretty good roll of hits (DVX, SDX, DVC30, GS400, etc) so I would expect that they have a good plan in store. Already they've announced a 60gb P2-reading hard disk. I don't know the size of it, but if it's the size of the portable USB2 drive I have, it could be smaller than a pack of cards, and you just plug a P2 card into the drive and it automatically offloads the contents. Hard disks are cheap - with a few of these, you could theoretically record continuously, perpetually, swapping out just a couple of P2 cards, emptying them onto the hard disk when they're full...

The possibility exists for a firewire tape system, or a firewire hard disk system, or firewire to a laptop as well. Panasonic's already got DVCPRO-HD working over firewire, you can firewire it straight into FCP-HD or Avid Express HD. So I'd expect firewire streaming too, which means it's just up to the FireStore guys (or Panasonic themselves) to produce a direct-to-disk recorder. I kind of (okay, I really) like the idea of the P2 card-reader hard disk, so the drive isn't tethered to the camera at all... but man, if the camera supports direct streaming of HD over the firewire port, maybe you wouldn't need *any* P2 cards?

Anyway, it's all speculation until Panasonic actually announces the product.
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Old February 16th, 2005, 03:58 AM   #13
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hmm.. well dvcpro tapes arent really all that big.. botu the size of a digital8 tape... so iit would be possible to retain small size.. however i really do think Pana wont be going that way due to costs... its also a whole new way of thinking and theres not much education out there with regard to the ebenfits of P2, let alone HDD recording

i sit and wait like a bride to be.... lol
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Old February 16th, 2005, 08:07 AM   #14
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<<<-- Originally posted by John Galt : I thought she said on Feb 14th:

Unfortunately I really am under a lock down on information and cannot answer the question. I really wish I could. I am authorized to say three things. under $10,000, DVCPRO25/50/HD and 24P. -->>>

Jan Crittenden wrote on February 6th, 2005 12:19 PM:

"But DVCPROHD is not a new tape format, but this little camera will not record to tape, rather to memory, P2 cards. No moving parts except those in the lens. I think it is going to change the world. But then what do I know."
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Old February 16th, 2005, 08:26 AM   #15
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<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green :
Hard disks are cheap - with a few of these, you could theoretically record continuously, perpetually, swapping out just a couple of P2 cards, emptying them onto the hard disk when they're full... -->>>

Yes hardisks in general are. But their special made wont be.
Even if you had a 100 of these 60gb hardrives, do you think it would be ok or a good workflow to every 4 minutes of shooting have to stop to change the card and put the other card to be tranferred to the hardrive? What about when your client is right behind your sholder and are worried about every minute they have to pay for. Or when you are out on a longer trip haveing to shoot a lot of footage?

Remeber the 4gig card only hold about 4 minutes of film. To me, that's a job by it self changeing the cards all the time. That's why they have camera loaders for film.. A 60GB hardrive only holds 60 minutes of footage, so their hardrive is worth in time as much as a tape, but costs over 10 times more!
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