Here is more specs

Aaron Koolen · March 30th, 2005, 10:59 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : Jan it's not that hard - I am doing it. I have one guy working for me....things change, with all the FPGA and highspeed CPU power that is on the market stuff can be done.
-->>>

We all know that Panasonic and all other camera manufacturers could do it - it's obvious though that they won't or should I say can't - simply because they have shareholders that they have to appease. I'm really interested in what you're doing Obin, sounds great. Do you have a website with any stills or video images available?

Any super duper advance in technology that's accessible for the masses will require that it's done by someone who has noone's pocketbooks to please and so can offer it at a price affordable by most

Good luck.

Aaron

Obin Olson · March 30th, 2005, 11:16 PM

Thank you Michael for the plesant reply. Chris I understand that you may not get involved in the pains of compression on a day-to-day basis..but I do as a high-end commercial production house with low-paying clients we MUST make the best of what we have(and I love my dvx100) but it's not good enough, not by a long shot and IMHO the Panasonic VariCam is also not good enough after using it...what gets my goat is the fact that if you take COMPRESSION off ANY camera with 3chips you have a WONDERFULL workable image! it's NOT the resolution I am after as it is the color space and bit depth! I guess if your not doing color grading and compositing of CG with plates you would not care. I can see that a DOC or FearFactor would not need an un-compressed camera but I do.

I look at 8bit images as a joke now. but maybe this is because I have seen what can be done with a simple RAW image without ANY camera compression/color fixing etc. its jsut amazing imho and I can see why film snobs are so stuckup..it's not DIGITAL that is at stake but the bit depth of the recorded image. It should not be "what DSP is the camera using" but "what bitdepth does the chip record in"? the question should be asked "what bit depth is the final recorded image in and how heavy is that compression" not is it mpeg2 or DV or HDCAM and "does the camera toss out 1/2 of the image information from the compression and pixel format it uses"? not "is that 4:1:1 or 4:2:2"...dunno maybe this will hit some as weird but when you start to look at what a HUGE amount of color and pixel information the standard professional camera jsut tosses away and how the camera is set by a company to jack the images to look the way they want it started to dawn on me the reason why people say "VIDEO" and "Film"
sorry for the ramble I will go to bed now...;)

Obin Olson · March 30th, 2005, 11:21 PM

funny thing is Aaron is it would be LESS work to do what I need done then building all the sub-systems it takes to compute the images. I take a RAW exposure and capture it. the standard camera system takes the raw image and converts it from the native raw format to a HEAVY compression and loads all types of color filters on it so the image can be "baked" into a heavy compression format.That is for a camera like the VariCam or the dvx100.

Oh and then all the work to build and design a tape transport!! forget it!

dunno just my 2cents

Joe Carney · March 30th, 2005, 11:33 PM

Obin, I think what your are doing is great. But from a busines standpoint, could you support a 100k ignorant users.
What would it cost to set up a toll free help desk. How about sales people, technicians, labor costs, usable documentation...benefits for your employees, legal fees, legal support fees, accountants, bookeepers, other admin over head, ...advertising...R&D andhealth insurance.. and still pay dividends to your stock holders..in other words all the things that are required to run a publicy owned business.

What you do is exciting and cutting edge, but comparing yourself to a multi national company is sort of an apple and oranges situation.

Do you have a Jan hanging out at all the various boards promoting your products? Would you have time to do that yourself if you suddenly had 10 thousand orders for what you've created?j Could you fulfill 10K orders and maintain quality. Suppose you just wanted to sell plans and insructions? Could you defend them against people copying them and sharing them with others for free?

Just trying to keep things in perspective. Concentrate on what you do best.

Radek Svoboda · March 31st, 2005, 08:42 AM

Obin, what you and other independent producers of cameras are doing is great and it would not be possible if big ones did not leave vacuum in market place. Obviously you don't have to make low cost HD camera to be limited to 25 Mbps. 25 Mbps DV has been around 8 years. Why continue with this tradition. Panasonic is proving that no one has to. But you were first.

Frank Vrionis · April 1st, 2005, 01:32 AM

<<What would it cost to set up a toll free help desk. How about sales people, technicians, labor costs, usable documentation...benefits for your employees, legal fees, legal support fees, accountants, bookeepers, other admin over head, ...advertising...R&D andhealth insurance.. and still pay dividends to your stock holders..in other words all the things that are required to run a publicy owned business.>>

If they can do all that and produce a camera that processes and compresses the image, why can't they just record a 4:4:4 image to hard disk like Juan or Obin? I think it can be done, but the Japanese consortium members are just locking in technologies for the oligopolies benefit.

Once again it will be left to ever growing mod/hack enthusiast to do the full job.

Andrei Kuvchinov · April 2nd, 2005, 03:59 AM

Go for it Obin.

The film industry was started by enthusiasts hacking together their own gear.

Make it open-source while you're at it. :-)

Laurence Maher · April 4th, 2005, 07:16 AM

Hey Jan,

So everyone was figuring for a while the Panny will have a fixed lens. But now rumors of interchangeables are flying. Will lens be fixed or interchangeable please?

Hoping so, Hoping so .....

Jan Crittenden Livingston · April 4th, 2005, 08:06 AM

Can't say, NAB!

Sorry,

Jan

Michael Pappas · April 4th, 2005, 09:08 AM

Hey Jan, do you have that response saved as a hot key. I am seeing that everywhere. :- O :- l :-)

<<<-- Originally posted by Jan Crittenden Livingston : Can't say, NAB!

Sorry,

Jan -->>>

Ben Aein · April 4th, 2005, 09:14 AM

Jan,

Can you say if the new camera will use the same kind of zoom controller as the dvx100?

Any chance the new camera has a remote Focus port? This would be a life saver!!!!!

Chris Hurd · April 4th, 2005, 10:15 AM

Jan really isn't in any position to comment on the feature set of the HVX beyond what she has already done. Please don't pester her with questions she's not allowed to answer yet. Instead, let's all speculate! Speculation is just as definitive as not getting an official answer, and much more fun. My own speculation is that it *will* have the Aux jack required for a VariZoom-style remote lens controller. As for focus, that depends. If the camera has auto-focus, then it has a motor, which could be remotely controlled. If it's manual focus only, then there's no focus motor, meaning any remote focus control will have to be a mechanical link to the ring, like a follow-focus mechanism.

Ben Aein · April 4th, 2005, 10:19 AM

Well Im hoping if the camera isn't finished yet and does not have a remote Focus port... That we should petition for that feature!

Please give us the Remote Focus Port

Chris Hurd · April 4th, 2005, 10:23 AM

Well, I'm pretty sure the feature set has been locked in.

To recap: if the lens has autofocus, that means there's a motor that might be controlled remotely.

If the lens is manual focus only, then there is no focus motor, and remote control will be a mechanical linkage to the focus ring.

Hope that's clear,

Aaron Koolen · April 4th, 2005, 02:19 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Laurence Maher : Hey Jan,

So everyone was figuring for a while the Panny will have a fixed lens. But now rumors of interchangeables are flying. Will lens be fixed or interchangeable please?

Hoping so, Hoping so ..... -->>>

Which rumours of an interchangeable lens?! The "under the covers" picture tha's out doesn't look like your standard interchangeable lense to me and I doubt they'd do that. In fact, don't you dare do that Panasonic, I would have a heart attack and empty my bank account in one fell swoop.

Aaron

March 30th, 2005, 10:59 PM	#31
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : Jan it's not that hard - I am doing it. I have one guy working for me....things change, with all the FPGA and highspeed CPU power that is on the market stuff can be done. -->>> We all know that Panasonic and all other camera manufacturers could do it - it's obvious though that they won't or should I say can't - simply because they have shareholders that they have to appease. I'm really interested in what you're doing Obin, sounds great. Do you have a website with any stills or video images available? Any super duper advance in technology that's accessible for the masses will require that it's done by someone who has noone's pocketbooks to please and so can offer it at a price affordable by most Good luck. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

April 4th, 2005, 08:06 AM	#39
Jan Crittenden Livingston Panasonic Broadcast Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Secaucus, NJ 07094 Posts: 271	Can't say, NAB! Sorry, Jan __________________ Jan Crittenden Livingston Panasonic Solutions Company, Product Manager for 3D and Handheld Cameras

April 4th, 2005, 10:15 AM	#42
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Jan really isn't in any position to comment on the feature set of the HVX beyond what she has already done. Please don't pester her with questions she's not allowed to answer yet. Instead, let's all speculate! Speculation is just as definitive as not getting an official answer, and much more fun. My own speculation is that it will have the Aux jack required for a VariZoom-style remote lens controller. As for focus, that depends. If the camera has auto-focus, then it has a motor, which could be remotely controlled. If it's manual focus only, then there's no focus motor, meaning any remote focus control will have to be a mechanical link to the ring, like a follow-focus mechanism. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 4th, 2005, 10:23 AM	#44
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Well, I'm pretty sure the feature set has been locked in. To recap: if the lens has autofocus, that means there's a motor that might be controlled remotely. If the lens is manual focus only, then there is no focus motor, and remote control will be a mechanical linkage to the focus ring. Hope that's clear, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 4th, 2005, 02:19 PM	#45
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	<<<-- Originally posted by Laurence Maher : Hey Jan, So everyone was figuring for a while the Panny will have a fixed lens. But now rumors of interchangeables are flying. Will lens be fixed or interchangeable please? Hoping so, Hoping so ..... -->>> Which rumours of an interchangeable lens?! The "under the covers" picture tha's out doesn't look like your standard interchangeable lense to me and I doubt they'd do that. In fact, don't you dare do that Panasonic, I would have a heart attack and empty my bank account in one fell swoop. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

March 30th, 2005, 11:16 PM	#32
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	Thank you Michael for the plesant reply. Chris I understand that you may not get involved in the pains of compression on a day-to-day basis..but I do as a high-end commercial production house with low-paying clients we MUST make the best of what we have(and I love my dvx100) but it's not good enough, not by a long shot and IMHO the Panasonic VariCam is also not good enough after using it...what gets my goat is the fact that if you take COMPRESSION off ANY camera with 3chips you have a WONDERFULL workable image! it's NOT the resolution I am after as it is the color space and bit depth! I guess if your not doing color grading and compositing of CG with plates you would not care. I can see that a DOC or FearFactor would not need an un-compressed camera but I do. I look at 8bit images as a joke now. but maybe this is because I have seen what can be done with a simple RAW image without ANY camera compression/color fixing etc. its jsut amazing imho and I can see why film snobs are so stuckup..it's not DIGITAL that is at stake but the bit depth of the recorded image. It should not be "what DSP is the camera using" but "what bitdepth does the chip record in"? the question should be asked "what bit depth is the final recorded image in and how heavy is that compression" not is it mpeg2 or DV or HDCAM and "does the camera toss out 1/2 of the image information from the compression and pixel format it uses"? not "is that 4:1:1 or 4:2:2"...dunno maybe this will hit some as weird but when you start to look at what a HUGE amount of color and pixel information the standard professional camera jsut tosses away and how the camera is set by a company to jack the images to look the way they want it started to dawn on me the reason why people say "VIDEO" and "Film" sorry for the ramble I will go to bed now...;)

March 30th, 2005, 11:21 PM	#33
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	funny thing is Aaron is it would be LESS work to do what I need done then building all the sub-systems it takes to compute the images. I take a RAW exposure and capture it. the standard camera system takes the raw image and converts it from the native raw format to a HEAVY compression and loads all types of color filters on it so the image can be "baked" into a heavy compression format.That is for a camera like the VariCam or the dvx100. Oh and then all the work to build and design a tape transport!! forget it! dunno just my 2cents

March 30th, 2005, 11:33 PM	#34
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Obin, I think what your are doing is great. But from a busines standpoint, could you support a 100k ignorant users. What would it cost to set up a toll free help desk. How about sales people, technicians, labor costs, usable documentation...benefits for your employees, legal fees, legal support fees, accountants, bookeepers, other admin over head, ...advertising...R&D andhealth insurance.. and still pay dividends to your stock holders..in other words all the things that are required to run a publicy owned business. What you do is exciting and cutting edge, but comparing yourself to a multi national company is sort of an apple and oranges situation. Do you have a Jan hanging out at all the various boards promoting your products? Would you have time to do that yourself if you suddenly had 10 thousand orders for what you've created?j Could you fulfill 10K orders and maintain quality. Suppose you just wanted to sell plans and insructions? Could you defend them against people copying them and sharing them with others for free? Just trying to keep things in perspective. Concentrate on what you do best.

March 31st, 2005, 08:42 AM	#35
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Obin, what you and other independent producers of cameras are doing is great and it would not be possible if big ones did not leave vacuum in market place. Obviously you don't have to make low cost HD camera to be limited to 25 Mbps. 25 Mbps DV has been around 8 years. Why continue with this tradition. Panasonic is proving that no one has to. But you were first.

April 1st, 2005, 01:32 AM	#36
Frank Vrionis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93	<<What would it cost to set up a toll free help desk. How about sales people, technicians, labor costs, usable documentation...benefits for your employees, legal fees, legal support fees, accountants, bookeepers, other admin over head, ...advertising...R&D andhealth insurance.. and still pay dividends to your stock holders..in other words all the things that are required to run a publicy owned business.>> If they can do all that and produce a camera that processes and compresses the image, why can't they just record a 4:4:4 image to hard disk like Juan or Obin? I think it can be done, but the Japanese consortium members are just locking in technologies for the oligopolies benefit. Once again it will be left to ever growing mod/hack enthusiast to do the full job.

April 2nd, 2005, 03:59 AM	#37
Andrei Kuvchinov New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Siberia, Russia Posts: 5	Go for it Obin. The film industry was started by enthusiasts hacking together their own gear. Make it open-source while you're at it. :-)

April 4th, 2005, 07:16 AM	#38
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	Hey Jan, So everyone was figuring for a while the Panny will have a fixed lens. But now rumors of interchangeables are flying. Will lens be fixed or interchangeable please? Hoping so, Hoping so .....

April 4th, 2005, 09:08 AM	#40
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Hey Jan, do you have that response saved as a hot key. I am seeing that everywhere. :- O :- l :-) <<<-- Originally posted by Jan Crittenden Livingston : Can't say, NAB! Sorry, Jan -->>>

April 4th, 2005, 09:14 AM	#41
Ben Aein New Boot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Potomac MD United States Posts: 6	Jan, Can you say if the new camera will use the same kind of zoom controller as the dvx100? Any chance the new camera has a remote Focus port? This would be a life saver!!!!!

April 4th, 2005, 10:19 AM	#43
Ben Aein New Boot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Potomac MD United States Posts: 6	Well Im hoping if the camera isn't finished yet and does not have a remote Focus port... That we should petition for that feature! Please give us the Remote Focus Port