It's official: Panasonic AG-HVX200

Aaron Shaw · March 31st, 2005, 08:06 PM

I think he means literally taking 60 frames and averaging them together to get 24p. The benefit being a higher signal to noise ratio. I'm not sure if it would work with averaging images that aren't the same though. I know it works in still photography but in that case the scene doesn't change (usually).

EDIT: Gah, hate it when that happens :P

Michael Struthers · March 31st, 2005, 09:00 PM

Better get to work on those filters, Grahame! I'm going to need them on my new 23 inch HD iMAC! *L*

Anders Holck Petersen · March 31st, 2005, 09:15 PM

One good thing about using pixelshift is that you can user larger photodiodes, lowering overall noise and greatly enhances smear suppresion, considereing the small sensor size (1/3"-1/2")

Here is a blurp from a Panasonic brochure:
http://panasonic.andersholck.com/spatialoffset.gif

The Panasonic AJ-HDX400 has a 1280x720 60p CCD block and supports 1080i, using some clever upressing...

Shannon Rawls · March 31st, 2005, 09:19 PM

WOW!!!!!!!!!!

Unreal!!!!! I can't WAIT to see this puppy!! When is it scheduled to ship?? Any insider news?

- ShannonRawls.com

Shannon Rawls · March 31st, 2005, 09:37 PM

P2 cards....

P2 cards.....

P2 cards.....

PLEASE BE AFFORDABLE.....

PLEASE MAKE 2-HOURS WORTH OF RECORDING AFFORDABLE.....

ALL A BRUTHA NEEDS IS 2-HOURS.....

I WILL BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU $6,999.99 FOR THE CAMERA AND 2-HOURS!!!!!

P2 cards.....

P2 cards......

P2 cards.....

*smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

Aaron Shaw · March 31st, 2005, 09:40 PM

Great stuff isn't it?! :D

You could (theoretically) use this camera for years - much longer than an average electronics life span.

I think there will be options for hard disk recording (I believe Panasonic has something on their website a while back) so that should hold most people over until P2 enters their budget range I would think. Hope I'm not wrong!

Luis Caffesse · March 31st, 2005, 10:02 PM

"The Panasonic AJ-HDX400 has a 1280x720 60p CCD block and supports 1080i, using some clever upressing..."

Is this confirmed?
Is there a link to this info?

Kevin Wild · March 31st, 2005, 10:16 PM

"You could (theoretically) use this camera for years..."

Ha! Who are you kidding? We'll all be drooling over the new SuperExtremeHighDefinition camera that will come out NAB 2007. (2009 for Canon.)

Kevin

Anders Holck Petersen · March 31st, 2005, 10:20 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Luis Caffesse : [i]Is this confirmed?
Is there a link to this info? -->>>

The Aj-HDX400 is a full size camcorder.

The new small one is the HVX200.

Aaron Shaw · March 31st, 2005, 10:25 PM

Isn't it HVX200?

Quite true Kevin :D. I'm talking pragmatically though. With SD there was a limit to how far you could go. With this however, improvements will surely be made but this should last about as long as the XL1 I would think a good 6 years maybe?

Honestly though, where do we go next? I can't even begin to imagine what Panasonic will be releasing a few years from now. Do we go scope? Greater latitude? Larger chips? More pixels? HD3D?

Kevin Wild · March 31st, 2005, 11:15 PM

Nah. The equipment becomes so good and owned by everyone, that we all start getting less excited about it and more focused more on good writing and good ideas.

A man can dream...

Kevin

(PS-On a serious note, this is all very much following what happened in the audio world over the past 15 years. In mid-80's I was so thrilled to be recording on 4-track recorders...than 8-track recorders. Now? It's not about the equipment at all. Anyone can record a technically decent signal into a computer. BUT, is music any better than 15 years ago? I sure don't think so...)

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 31st, 2005, 11:27 PM

> If you start with a 4:4:4 image and use pixel shift
> you will end up with an image at 4:2:2 no matter
> how it is encoded.

Yep. So... who cares if pixel shift is used when it's going to be encoded at 4:2:2 anyway? I don't. Especially if, by using pixel shift, better sensitivity and s/n is obtained, not to mention an easier to make (read: less expensive) sensor array.

Now the only thing I want is to have an option to pop a hard drive into the P2 slot instead of solid state memory. Should be much less expensive.

Thomas Smet · March 31st, 2005, 11:42 PM

"The Panasonic AJ-HDX400 has a 1280x720 60p CCD block and supports 1080i, using some clever upressing..."

Well that would get us to 1920 x 1080 with pixel shift. You get 1.5X the luma pixels with pixel shift. This would give us a 1080i/p image with 1920 x 1080 luma pixels and only 1280 x 720 chroma pixels or a 3:2:2 natural image. The codec would then bring that down to 1920 x 1080 for luma and 960 x 540 for chroma or 4:2:2I guess that isn't that bad. It sure beats 4:1:1.

Even if the new Panasonic camera uses pixel shift for 1080i/p that sure beats the SONY Z1 trying to jump up to 1920 from only 960.

Even for those who love pixel shift you have to admit starting with 1280 instead of 960 pixels is much better when trying to get to 1920.

Luis Caffesse · March 31st, 2005, 11:50 PM

"The Aj-HDX400 is a full size camcorder.

The new small one is the HVX200."

That's what I get for not reading carefully.

Boy is my face red!
:)

"It's not about the equipment at all. Anyone can record a technically decent signal into a computer. BUT, is music any better than 15 years ago? I sure don't think so..."

That is true, as a blanket statement.
Music overall may not be better than it was 15 years ago, but I guarantee you there are people recording incredible music today that would not have had the means to do so 15 years ago.

So, you are right, these technological leaps don't automatically equal better content, not at all. But I'll bet that out of the thousands of cameras that are sold this year, at least one person will make something interesting, genuine, and possibly brilliant. And that same person may not have done so if they couldn't afford it before.

Sergio Perez · April 1st, 2005, 01:28 AM

I'm a bit worried about no mention of 3ccd's... And more, I'm really worried about the lens- One of the things I liked most in my DVX was the fantastic LEICA DICOMAR lens it had- the colors, the sharpness, the amazing detail and, again, the Colors where what sold me- a million time better than the plain sony lens of my PD-170...

March 31st, 2005, 09:00 PM	#62
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	Better get to work on those filters, Grahame! I'm going to need them on my new 23 inch HD iMAC! L __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

March 31st, 2005, 10:02 PM	#67
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"The Panasonic AJ-HDX400 has a 1280x720 60p CCD block and supports 1080i, using some clever upressing..." Is this confirmed? Is there a link to this info? __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

March 31st, 2005, 11:27 PM	#72
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> If you start with a 4:4:4 image and use pixel shift > you will end up with an image at 4:2:2 no matter > how it is encoded. Yep. So... who cares if pixel shift is used when it's going to be encoded at 4:2:2 anyway? I don't. Especially if, by using pixel shift, better sensitivity and s/n is obtained, not to mention an easier to make (read: less expensive) sensor array. Now the only thing I want is to have an option to pop a hard drive into the P2 slot instead of solid state memory. Should be much less expensive. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

March 31st, 2005, 11:50 PM	#74
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"The Aj-HDX400 is a full size camcorder. The new small one is the HVX200." That's what I get for not reading carefully. Boy is my face red! :) "It's not about the equipment at all. Anyone can record a technically decent signal into a computer. BUT, is music any better than 15 years ago? I sure don't think so..." That is true, as a blanket statement. Music overall may not be better than it was 15 years ago, but I guarantee you there are people recording incredible music today that would not have had the means to do so 15 years ago. So, you are right, these technological leaps don't automatically equal better content, not at all. But I'll bet that out of the thousands of cameras that are sold this year, at least one person will make something interesting, genuine, and possibly brilliant. And that same person may not have done so if they couldn't afford it before. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

April 1st, 2005, 01:28 AM	#75
Sergio Perez Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 331	I'm a bit worried about no mention of 3ccd's... And more, I'm really worried about the lens- One of the things I liked most in my DVX was the fantastic LEICA DICOMAR lens it had- the colors, the sharpness, the amazing detail and, again, the Colors where what sold me- a million time better than the plain sony lens of my PD-170... __________________ If you don't believe in your film, no one else will.

March 31st, 2005, 08:06 PM	#61
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	I think he means literally taking 60 frames and averaging them together to get 24p. The benefit being a higher signal to noise ratio. I'm not sure if it would work with averaging images that aren't the same though. I know it works in still photography but in that case the scene doesn't change (usually). EDIT: Gah, hate it when that happens :P

March 31st, 2005, 09:15 PM	#63
Anders Holck Petersen Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 59	One good thing about using pixelshift is that you can user larger photodiodes, lowering overall noise and greatly enhances smear suppresion, considereing the small sensor size (1/3"-1/2") Here is a blurp from a Panasonic brochure: http://panasonic.andersholck.com/spatialoffset.gif The Panasonic AJ-HDX400 has a 1280x720 60p CCD block and supports 1080i, using some clever upressing...

March 31st, 2005, 09:19 PM	#64
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	WOW!!!!!!!!!! Unreal!!!!! I can't WAIT to see this puppy!! When is it scheduled to ship?? Any insider news? - ShannonRawls.com

March 31st, 2005, 09:37 PM	#65
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	P2 cards.... P2 cards..... P2 cards..... PLEASE BE AFFORDABLE..... PLEASE MAKE 2-HOURS WORTH OF RECORDING AFFORDABLE..... ALL A BRUTHA NEEDS IS 2-HOURS..... I WILL BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU $6,999.99 FOR THE CAMERA AND 2-HOURS!!!!! P2 cards..... P2 cards...... P2 cards..... smile - ShannonRawls.com

March 31st, 2005, 09:40 PM	#66
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Great stuff isn't it?! :D You could (theoretically) use this camera for years - much longer than an average electronics life span. I think there will be options for hard disk recording (I believe Panasonic has something on their website a while back) so that should hold most people over until P2 enters their budget range I would think. Hope I'm not wrong!

March 31st, 2005, 10:16 PM	#68
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	"You could (theoretically) use this camera for years..." Ha! Who are you kidding? We'll all be drooling over the new SuperExtremeHighDefinition camera that will come out NAB 2007. (2009 for Canon.) Kevin

March 31st, 2005, 10:20 PM	#69
Anders Holck Petersen Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 59	<<<-- Originally posted by Luis Caffesse : [i]Is this confirmed? Is there a link to this info? -->>> The Aj-HDX400 is a full size camcorder. The new small one is the HVX200.

March 31st, 2005, 10:25 PM	#70
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Isn't it HVX200? Quite true Kevin :D. I'm talking pragmatically though. With SD there was a limit to how far you could go. With this however, improvements will surely be made but this should last about as long as the XL1 I would think a good 6 years maybe? Honestly though, where do we go next? I can't even begin to imagine what Panasonic will be releasing a few years from now. Do we go scope? Greater latitude? Larger chips? More pixels? HD3D?

March 31st, 2005, 11:15 PM	#71
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Nah. The equipment becomes so good and owned by everyone, that we all start getting less excited about it and more focused more on good writing and good ideas. A man can dream... Kevin (PS-On a serious note, this is all very much following what happened in the audio world over the past 15 years. In mid-80's I was so thrilled to be recording on 4-track recorders...than 8-track recorders. Now? It's not about the equipment at all. Anyone can record a technically decent signal into a computer. BUT, is music any better than 15 years ago? I sure don't think so...)

March 31st, 2005, 11:42 PM	#73
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	"The Panasonic AJ-HDX400 has a 1280x720 60p CCD block and supports 1080i, using some clever upressing..." Well that would get us to 1920 x 1080 with pixel shift. You get 1.5X the luma pixels with pixel shift. This would give us a 1080i/p image with 1920 x 1080 luma pixels and only 1280 x 720 chroma pixels or a 3:2:2 natural image. The codec would then bring that down to 1920 x 1080 for luma and 960 x 540 for chroma or 4:2:2I guess that isn't that bad. It sure beats 4:1:1. Even if the new Panasonic camera uses pixel shift for 1080i/p that sure beats the SONY Z1 trying to jump up to 1920 from only 960. Even for those who love pixel shift you have to admit starting with 1280 instead of 960 pixels is much better when trying to get to 1920.