HVX on BH Photo

Brendan Sundry · April 25th, 2005, 07:39 PM

<<I will wait for the HD DVD to come out because I am a man of perfection. >>

Mate if you were a perfectionist,
you would only settle for a carbon copy of reality.

HD DVD isnt issue, you could watch DVCPRO hd on vhs and it would look better than DV.

You need to chill out before you piss off someone of note and ruin your career before its begun. Why? because your making yourself look very ignorant. And with attitude like that no one will want to work with you. no matter how good your videos are.

How do i know this? Because ive been there before, i thought i was that good. All this up talking stems from really being insecure.

And Really what the difference b/w shooting skatboarding or shooting football, or car racing or any other sports. So if you wanna be a big shot go over to the skate forum and tout yourself over there, im sure theyll buy into it.

take my advice and cop it on the chin (as we say down here).

And good luck.

Gary Miller · April 25th, 2005, 08:46 PM

Many years ago I was attending a photographic exhibit by the LIFE photojournalist Alfred Eisenstsadt. He was there along with the usual crowd of luminaries, critics, and photography lovers.

A father and son came up to him and asked, "Mr. Eisenstadt, what kind of camera do you use?"

"A Leica" Eisie replied.

"Son," responded the father, "I'm going to buy you a Leica so you can take pictures like Mr. Eisenstadt when you grow up."

I often wonder what other art has its practitioners talking so much about tools. Do painters argue about brushes? Do writers argue about word processors? Does the carpenter blame his hammer?

Kevin Dooley · April 25th, 2005, 08:54 PM

Well, I know a few artists that I've seen argue brushes in front of me, and my dad swore by old-fashioned wooden hammers for years, despite everything else that has come out... so yeah, I guess everyone does (kinda like the wooden bat vs aluminum bat in baseball...)

The shame of it is that our tools cost so much... (when compared to a hammer or paint brush). Oh, but moving images are so much more rewarding (at least to me...)

Lawrence Bochkis · April 26th, 2005, 12:26 AM

Kevin and Gary,
The answer is, bad artists argue about brushes, bad pianists argue about pianos, etc.
In any field, there are those who are "gear" oriented, and those who simply "DO." Many people lose focus of the actual subject matter, and also often use their gear talk to obfuscate their own insecurities and ineptitude. I've been intimately involved in music, sculpture, and many other creative mediums my whole life, and I know that the natural human response is to talk about the toys, and even blame them when things aren't going well.
Jascha Heifetz could make Beethoven sing on a $3 fiddle; Cartier-Bresson could create a masterpiece with a mayonaise jar and some dirty film.

I do it myself....in stead of focusing, and actually creating good work, I read online forums, check out camera websites, and focus on what I'd like to have, rather than making do. It's fun, and it gives me an excuse for my lack of experience. Not a good one, but an excuse.

I've found that when you start focusing on how other people suck, or don't do things right, it takes away from you personally making yourself better. A better way would be to focus on what someone could have done better, and specifically what one can do better oneself.

Likewise, it is probablly better (I'll say probablly, because I'm not the authority here or anywhere else) to learn to master whatever equipment you have, and learn to use it to its absolute fullest capability. Once (If) you get to the level that you have outgrown that equipment, your choice of new equipment will be clear.
In photography, the camera is almost totally unimportant in the grand scheme of things, all that matters is a. the lens, b. the film, and C. how the photographer shines on the film.

The only thing that matters to the audience is the final touch on the canvas, not which brush was used, and what animal's fur was used to make it.

Oh, and by the way, there are absolutely paint-brushes that reach into the thousands. Japanese caligraphy brushes (also used for ceramics) can often cost as much as a Toyota.

Aaron Koolen · April 26th, 2005, 02:11 AM

Lawrence, fine words. I am one of these people who can easily fall victim to gear talk as a substitute for DOING it. I'm a techy, unashamedly, but it often can cloud over the desire that sites there to make something with it. It's often safer just to look at websites, dream of gear and buy it and play, rather than go out there and god forbid, make a movie, and another and another, knowing that you'll probably be pretty crap at first ;)

Aaron

Jay Dee · April 26th, 2005, 03:01 AM

TO GREG:

Greg, I am a skateboard photographer and I have done some filming in the past and I'd like to point out a few things.
Indeed, $5-$6K is a lot for filming skateboarding stuff if you're a freelancer and even more if you're a freelancer not in California... but believe me, the day this camera comes out I bet people like Ty Evans and Greg Hunt and other filmers that work for skateboarding companies will have one.
Don't forget that for skateboarding companies videos are their main marketing tool... and they want it to look good.

Think about this: 720/60P footage will give you smoother slowmo's than you've ever seen and if you downscale 720 footage to SD it will look better than any DV cam.
1080 footage downscaled will look even better... but cheaper HDV will look bad because there's just too much motion in skateboarding for HDV to look good.

And I fully aggree with you on ESPN and Skateboarding. ESPN doesn't count in the skateboarding world... but that doesn't mean their camerapeople aren't any good (in other areas).

And finally: you and I know skateboarding isn't a toy-business but there are other ways to point that out than to get angry and making yourself (and skaters in general) look bad.
Plus, it doesn't make sense to state that this camera is too expensive for filming skateboarding and then to say that Ty drives an A8 and has 3 dvx's and is oh-so-rich... it either means that a) you are spending too much time shouting about HD-DVD on forums and not enough time trying to get where Ty and Fred are at or b)that you should ask more money for the stuff you film.

Gary Miller · April 26th, 2005, 05:30 AM

The fact that many of us on this thread are interested in technology is not surprising. Whatever part of our brain controlling that interest is working a little harder that most people's. Years ago I was entranced by and lucky enough to work with Imax. That was an exciting experience, but it was just if not more exciting to see viewer's faces as they watched and experienced it for the first time.

But the point Lawrence makes so succinctly is that in our field, as intruiging and fun as it is, technology has to take a back seat to the act of making the film. Make your first "film" on an old VHS camcorder. Our kids and their friends, who all grew up to be actors, filmmakers and musicians, made such films when they were young. That they are still hilarious to watch today (obviously as parents we're biased) is testimony the fact that creativity comes first, then technolgy .

Which brings us to the good news. If we build relationships and grow as human beings, and if and when you get to the big leagues, you understand the collaborative nature of this business. And you have teams of people in charge of each technology. All of which adds up to a movie. Hopefully one worth watching.

Greg Harris · April 26th, 2005, 06:17 AM

HA, I wasn't mad or yelling at all. This is why IM, EMAIL, and MESSAGEBOARDS are BAD. LOL POINT IS. Do you guys really think it will be 10k? 10k is a lot of money for me. And everyone will have to start hitting up the gym because she looks like a heavy one. People think i'm nuts when i'm filming 40 second lines for 40 minutes with a Bescor light and batter +fisheye lens at night because it's heavy and just looks BIG. I tell them it takes a man to operate a DVX100 while skating 10 mph. So what's the final word, does this thing record HD on tape or just the P2 cards?

Jan Crittenden Livingston · April 26th, 2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurth Bousman

You had to have had ready more than a nonworking model prototype at nab, if you're delivering a product in sept. Why didn't you show it ? From being a prototype building engineer for 9 years , this sounds like there's a problem - I hate to be the fly in the ointment.

Hi Kurth, You make it sound as though it might be a simple matter to put this all together. Let me say that within the framework of this little camera, if we were to implement all of the variable frame rates, there are 72 "formats" to test and fully engineer to completion from a P2 memory card. And that is just the record side. Then let's look at the rest of the camera and try to figure out how to optimize the performance.

Frankly I don't see a problem and we did not say September, we said 4th quarter. That means anything within the 4th quarter of 2005. Now if we look at our track record, we showed the mockup DVX100 at NAB2002, and delivered in October of 2002. I am hoping for a repeat of this, but the tasks to accomplish are a little more weighty than that of the DVX, but to me, 4th quarter still seems possible.

Hope this helps,

Jan

Jan Crittenden Livingston · April 26th, 2005, 07:02 AM

Quote: