HVX on BH Photo - Page 3 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
All AG-HPX and AJ-PX Series camcorders and P2 / P2HD hardware.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 25th, 2005, 08:39 PM   #31
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
<<I will wait for the HD DVD to come out because I am a man of perfection. >>

Mate if you were a perfectionist,
you would only settle for a carbon copy of reality.

HD DVD isnt issue, you could watch DVCPRO hd on vhs and it would look better than DV.

You need to chill out before you piss off someone of note and ruin your career before its begun. Why? because your making yourself look very ignorant. And with attitude like that no one will want to work with you. no matter how good your videos are.

How do i know this? Because ive been there before, i thought i was that good. All this up talking stems from really being insecure.

And Really what the difference b/w shooting skatboarding or shooting football, or car racing or any other sports. So if you wanna be a big shot go over to the skate forum and tout yourself over there, im sure theyll buy into it.

take my advice and cop it on the chin (as we say down here).

And good luck.
Brendan Sundry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2005, 09:46 PM   #32
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yonkers, NY
Posts: 21
I'm going to buy you a...

Many years ago I was attending a photographic exhibit by the LIFE photojournalist Alfred Eisenstsadt. He was there along with the usual crowd of luminaries, critics, and photography lovers.

A father and son came up to him and asked, "Mr. Eisenstadt, what kind of camera do you use?"

"A Leica" Eisie replied.

"Son," responded the father, "I'm going to buy you a Leica so you can take pictures like Mr. Eisenstadt when you grow up."

I often wonder what other art has its practitioners talking so much about tools. Do painters argue about brushes? Do writers argue about word processors? Does the carpenter blame his hammer?
Gary Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2005, 09:54 PM   #33
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 414
Well, I know a few artists that I've seen argue brushes in front of me, and my dad swore by old-fashioned wooden hammers for years, despite everything else that has come out... so yeah, I guess everyone does (kinda like the wooden bat vs aluminum bat in baseball...)

The shame of it is that our tools cost so much... (when compared to a hammer or paint brush). Oh, but moving images are so much more rewarding (at least to me...)
__________________
Kevin Dooley
Media Director, Pantego Bible Church
Kevin Dooley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 01:26 AM   #34
New Boot
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8
and the answer is...

Kevin and Gary,
The answer is, bad artists argue about brushes, bad pianists argue about pianos, etc.
In any field, there are those who are "gear" oriented, and those who simply "DO." Many people lose focus of the actual subject matter, and also often use their gear talk to obfuscate their own insecurities and ineptitude. I've been intimately involved in music, sculpture, and many other creative mediums my whole life, and I know that the natural human response is to talk about the toys, and even blame them when things aren't going well.
Jascha Heifetz could make Beethoven sing on a $3 fiddle; Cartier-Bresson could create a masterpiece with a mayonaise jar and some dirty film.

I do it myself....in stead of focusing, and actually creating good work, I read online forums, check out camera websites, and focus on what I'd like to have, rather than making do. It's fun, and it gives me an excuse for my lack of experience. Not a good one, but an excuse.

I've found that when you start focusing on how other people suck, or don't do things right, it takes away from you personally making yourself better. A better way would be to focus on what someone could have done better, and specifically what one can do better oneself.

Likewise, it is probablly better (I'll say probablly, because I'm not the authority here or anywhere else) to learn to master whatever equipment you have, and learn to use it to its absolute fullest capability. Once (If) you get to the level that you have outgrown that equipment, your choice of new equipment will be clear.
In photography, the camera is almost totally unimportant in the grand scheme of things, all that matters is a. the lens, b. the film, and C. how the photographer shines on the film.

The only thing that matters to the audience is the final touch on the canvas, not which brush was used, and what animal's fur was used to make it.

Oh, and by the way, there are absolutely paint-brushes that reach into the thousands. Japanese caligraphy brushes (also used for ceramics) can often cost as much as a Toyota.
Lawrence Bochkis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 03:11 AM   #35
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 1,727
Lawrence, fine words. I am one of these people who can easily fall victim to gear talk as a substitute for DOING it. I'm a techy, unashamedly, but it often can cloud over the desire that sites there to make something with it. It's often safer just to look at websites, dream of gear and buy it and play, rather than go out there and god forbid, make a movie, and another and another, knowing that you'll probably be pretty crap at first ;)

Aaron
__________________
My Website
Meat Free Media
Aaron Koolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 04:01 AM   #36
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: europe
Posts: 32
TO GREG:

Greg, I am a skateboard photographer and I have done some filming in the past and I'd like to point out a few things.
Indeed, $5-$6K is a lot for filming skateboarding stuff if you're a freelancer and even more if you're a freelancer not in California... but believe me, the day this camera comes out I bet people like Ty Evans and Greg Hunt and other filmers that work for skateboarding companies will have one.
Don't forget that for skateboarding companies videos are their main marketing tool... and they want it to look good.

Think about this: 720/60P footage will give you smoother slowmo's than you've ever seen and if you downscale 720 footage to SD it will look better than any DV cam.
1080 footage downscaled will look even better... but cheaper HDV will look bad because there's just too much motion in skateboarding for HDV to look good.

And I fully aggree with you on ESPN and Skateboarding. ESPN doesn't count in the skateboarding world... but that doesn't mean their camerapeople aren't any good (in other areas).

And finally: you and I know skateboarding isn't a toy-business but there are other ways to point that out than to get angry and making yourself (and skaters in general) look bad.
Plus, it doesn't make sense to state that this camera is too expensive for filming skateboarding and then to say that Ty drives an A8 and has 3 dvx's and is oh-so-rich... it either means that a) you are spending too much time shouting about HD-DVD on forums and not enough time trying to get where Ty and Fred are at or b)that you should ask more money for the stuff you film.
Jay Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 06:30 AM   #37
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yonkers, NY
Posts: 21
The fact that many of us on this thread are interested in technology is not surprising. Whatever part of our brain controlling that interest is working a little harder that most people's. Years ago I was entranced by and lucky enough to work with Imax. That was an exciting experience, but it was just if not more exciting to see viewer's faces as they watched and experienced it for the first time.

But the point Lawrence makes so succinctly is that in our field, as intruiging and fun as it is, technology has to take a back seat to the act of making the film. Make your first "film" on an old VHS camcorder. Our kids and their friends, who all grew up to be actors, filmmakers and musicians, made such films when they were young. That they are still hilarious to watch today (obviously as parents we're biased) is testimony the fact that creativity comes first, then technolgy .

Which brings us to the good news. If we build relationships and grow as human beings, and if and when you get to the big leagues, you understand the collaborative nature of this business. And you have teams of people in charge of each technology. All of which adds up to a movie. Hopefully one worth watching.
Gary Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 07:17 AM   #38
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 356
HA, I wasn't mad or yelling at all. This is why IM, EMAIL, and MESSAGEBOARDS are BAD. LOL POINT IS. Do you guys really think it will be 10k? 10k is a lot of money for me. And everyone will have to start hitting up the gym because she looks like a heavy one. People think i'm nuts when i'm filming 40 second lines for 40 minutes with a Bescor light and batter +fisheye lens at night because it's heavy and just looks BIG. I tell them it takes a man to operate a DVX100 while skating 10 mph. So what's the final word, does this thing record HD on tape or just the P2 cards?
Greg Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 07:59 AM   #39
Panasonic Broadcast
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Secaucus, NJ 07094
Posts: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurth Bousman
You had to have had ready more than a nonworking model prototype at nab, if you're delivering a product in sept. Why didn't you show it ? From being a prototype building engineer for 9 years , this sounds like there's a problem - I hate to be the fly in the ointment.
Hi Kurth, You make it sound as though it might be a simple matter to put this all together. Let me say that within the framework of this little camera, if we were to implement all of the variable frame rates, there are 72 "formats" to test and fully engineer to completion from a P2 memory card. And that is just the record side. Then let's look at the rest of the camera and try to figure out how to optimize the performance.

Frankly I don't see a problem and we did not say September, we said 4th quarter. That means anything within the 4th quarter of 2005. Now if we look at our track record, we showed the mockup DVX100 at NAB2002, and delivered in October of 2002. I am hoping for a repeat of this, but the tasks to accomplish are a little more weighty than that of the DVX, but to me, 4th quarter still seems possible.


Hope this helps,

Jan
__________________
Jan Crittenden Livingston
Panasonic Solutions Company, Product Manager for 3D and Handheld Cameras
Jan Crittenden Livingston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 08:02 AM   #40
Panasonic Broadcast
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Secaucus, NJ 07094
Posts: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Harris
So what's the final word, does this thing record HD on tape or just the P2 cards?
Just on the P2 cards.

Best,

Jan
__________________
Jan Crittenden Livingston
Panasonic Solutions Company, Product Manager for 3D and Handheld Cameras
Jan Crittenden Livingston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 08:49 AM   #41
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Howdy from Texas,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Harris
HA, I wasn't mad or yelling at all. This is why IM, EMAIL, and MESSAGEBOARDS are BAD.
The point that you're trying to make is that it's difficult to properly convey emotions through text, and I agree. But we try to make a difference with this message board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Harris
Do you guys really think it will be 10k? 10k is a lot of money for me.
You're speaking in relative terms. $10k is a lot of money for *you* (and for me) but for many people it's a real bargain. The DVCPro HD format has never before been made available so inexpensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Harris
And everyone will have to start hitting up the gym because she looks like a heavy one.
Again, relative terms... it's actually very small and very lightweight for a DVCPro HD camera. Try skateboarding with a VariCam and you'll see how good you've got it with the HVX200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Harris
So what's the final word, does this thing record HD on tape or just the P2 cards?
Jan just answered that it records HD to the P2 cards only, and it's important to understand why. A DVCPro HD tape transport would have cost about $20k just for the mechanism. The idea was to keep the total price down below $10k, so that pretty much ruled out any kind of tape transport except DV25 (that is, standard definition DV or DVCPro). Hope this helps,
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 09:04 AM   #42
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 356
When I said everyone will be hitting the gym, I was talking about skateboard filmers (sorry about that). I'm developing back problems after filming lines with my full set up at night. You would never film a full lenth skateboard movie with a Varicam. After a vx1 vx2 dvx100 people jump over to 16mm. Which is also pointless because of the price. The only people who film 16mm are guys who get that stuff for free from the companies they shoot for. I would LOVE to shoot 16mm, but again, you wouldn't make a full lenth video out of 16mm just sections like Transworld videos do.
Greg Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 09:35 AM   #43
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 47
-

Great discussion guys.

Lawrence is absolutely right: people are focusing on tools a little too much on the web. But still: it's a great source of technical information :-)

Nice to see that some people are more focusing on "artistical side" versus "technical"
Jon Miova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 11:51 AM   #44
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Centreville Va
Posts: 1,828
Think Superbit.....

If you've ever rented or purchased a Superbit DVD, and wanted to know why they call it that..
Superbit is creating a DVD from uncompressed HD source(1080 24p). and creating a DVD that plays back video and audio at the maximum allowable bitrate (Most DVDs don't). No behind the scenes, no previews, no extras. Just great looking/ great sounding DVD. More detail, in every way.

It's been a pretty good marketing tool for Sony to the high end Home Theater crowd. With HDV or this new panasonic, there is no reason you all couldn't do something similar. Then when an affordable HD standard makes it's debut, you will be ready.
Joe Carney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2005, 12:53 PM   #45
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Medford Oregon
Posts: 152
Back to the original topic: I hope they will also sell this camera without the P2 cards. I could afford a new laptop to record the video for the cost of one of those cards.
Kenn Christenson is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:52 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network