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Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
All AG-HPX and AJ-PX Series camcorders and P2 / P2HD hardware.


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Old May 10th, 2005, 05:33 PM   #1
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Move this whole Panny forum?

Chris,

Isn't it time to tuck this whole "Panasonic AG-HVX200 DVCPro HD/P2 Camcorder" forum under the HD section?

It's just another HD cam. You don't have the Sony or JVC cams at the top of the Community home page. Shouldn't this cam's forum be placed in the HD sub-forum. Whether it's HDV or ProHD, it's HD related and should be grouped together to avoid cluttering the top page. And as of right now, its only vaporware.

Besides, by virtue of location, it appears you're giving very preferential treatment to this cam over all others.
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Old May 10th, 2005, 09:02 PM   #2
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Good idea, in my opinion. They are all 1/3" chip HD "prosumer" type cameras, whether they record to HDV or to DCVPRO HD. Maybe they could all be lumped together and called something like Affordable HD, or HD for the Masses--oops, nope, 2-pop has that one. Somebody needs to come up with a word better than "prosumer," which is really a disgusting non-word.
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Old May 10th, 2005, 09:24 PM   #3
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How about Cheapro? Or, AffordablePro. Or, BargainPro? Or, Blue Light Special Pro?
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Old May 10th, 2005, 11:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick King
Chris,

Isn't it time to tuck this whole "Panasonic AG-HVX200 DVCPro HD/P2 Camcorder" forum under the HD section?

It's just another HD cam. You don't have the Sony or JVC cams at the top of the Community home page. Shouldn't this cam's forum be placed in the HD sub-forum. Whether it's HDV or ProHD, it's HD related and should be grouped together to avoid cluttering the top page. And as of right now, its only vaporware.

Besides, by virtue of location, it appears you're giving very preferential treatment to this cam over all others.
Vaporware! That hurts,,,,but true I guess. No one has ever seen a working one yet. It's not my board but it should go in the HD section. When all the hype was going it was easy to find, but now there is nothing new.

Sounds like a good camera, but I think it was a bad marketing plan.
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Old May 11th, 2005, 07:33 AM   #5
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Bob, I think it'll be a great cam that will meet the needs of a good number of folks. I think it and the JVC HD cam will start to stratify the lower end of the 'pro' ranks. And I have no doubt that Panny will come through, its not like it'll be vaporware forever, but its not like it'll be here tomorrow either.

Bill, the word 'prosumer' is so embedded in this field that I think we'll not see it replaced soon, especially by some of the really bad replacements Guy recommended. Sorry Guy. ;)
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Old May 11th, 2005, 07:41 AM   #6
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And as of right now, its only vaporware.

......

Sounds like a good camera, but I think it was a bad marketing plan.



It's still way too early to call this camera 'vaporware,' and in my opinion it's entirely unfair and premature. What makes it vaporware? The fact that it's not released yet?

The term vaporware refers to a product which is announced, given a release date, and then fails to be released as promised.

As of right now, this camera is following the same exact release and marketing path that the DVX did. Panasonic made the announcement, showed off a mockup, and gave a release date. So far they have stuck by everything they've said. If the fourth quarter of this year comes and goes with no HVX release, then you can call it vaporware. But as of right now, there is no reason to believe the camera will not be released as planned.

It may be a long wait, but that doesn't mean it isn't going to happen, and defintely does not make it vaporware.
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Old May 11th, 2005, 08:29 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Luis Caffesse
It's still way too early to call this camera 'vaporware,' and in my opinion it's entirely unfair and premature.
Luis,
I'll agree that 'vaporware' was a little harsh and the marketing release of this camera does not constitute the narrow definition of 'vaporware'. I retract that term as I firmly believe that Panny will release the cam on or very near the scheduled date. And I wish I had an extra 10k laying around about then.

But...even if its not vaporware, it is just another High Definition acquisition camcorder. So why does it deserve to remain 'above the fold' while all the other equipment is nested two levels deeper? That's all I'm asking? Heck, the XL2 didn't even stay broken out for this long and we know Chris has been known to shoot a Canon (pun intended).
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Old May 11th, 2005, 11:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick King
Chris,

Isn't it time to tuck this whole "Panasonic AG-HVX200 DVCPro HD/P2 Camcorder" forum under the HD section?...
I agree... too much hype, too soon. ;-)

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Old May 11th, 2005, 12:42 PM   #9
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As of right now there is no "HD" section, there is the HDV section, but this camera doesn't shoot HDV. I assume this is why Chris hasn't moved the forum yet. Eventually it will find a home as he reorganizes things I would guess.

Why the hurry to move it anyhow?
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Old May 11th, 2005, 03:58 PM   #10
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...
Bill, the word 'prosumer' is so embedded in this field that I think we'll not see it replaced soon, especially by some of the really bad replacements Guy recommended. Sorry Guy. ;)...

The term "prosumer" assumes that in some way this camera is aimed at, or marketed to, the hobbyist or consumer.

The HVX, Z1, and HD100 are Professional cameras; designed for and marketed to working pros. They are in a price range that would preclude almost all DV consumers from buying one.
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Old May 11th, 2005, 09:34 PM   #11
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Well, the reason it's up here at the top is because it's a forum without a home.

It will *not* be thrown into the HDV category... if I did that, nobody at Panasonic would ever speak to me again. P2 is not HDV. DVCPRO HD is not HDV. And so on.

There will be some sort of reorganization of categories coming up pretty soon. One option is to throw all of the HD format boards in some sort of general HD category, but the term "prosumer" most definitely will not be part of the description.

For now you guys are going to have to live with its current location, but it will indeed move once we can figure out the best to reorganize and order the forum categories. Thanks a bunch,
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Old May 11th, 2005, 11:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Patrick King
Chris,
Besides, by virtue of location, it appears you're giving very preferential treatment to this cam over all others.
I would like to think he is! hehehe! From the sounds of it, this is NOT just another HD camera. This camera will be in very great demand. I would expect it to sell out even faster than the Z1 did. I would have bought a Z1 if Sony made it like the HVX.
HDV is and was designed as a "consumer" format. An expensive consumer product that is just good enough for professionals to get away with is considered "PROsumer", but I like Guy's suggestion of "Cheapro" better.

And considering I can't find an HD TV for under $1000.00, these Cheapro cameras ARE well within the price range of almost any consumer in the HD market.

Think about it, compare the price of a standard-def high end consumer camera, like the VX2000, vs a standard-def TV. Now do the same for HD-TV's and where would that leave the price range for a high end consumer or low end Professional HD video camera? I have a $400 TV (Sony WEGA) and a $4000 camera (the PD-170, the lowest end PRO camera, sorry the VX is considered a consumer camera even by Sony) so if I were to move to HD it would be safe to assume that if my TV cost (at least) $1000 my camera would cost $10K (like Panasonic's lowest end PRO camera, the HVX200)

But my biggest worry is what's going to happen when nobody uses DV anymore? Can we still come here and visit?
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Old May 12th, 2005, 08:30 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
It will *not* be thrown into the HDV category... if I did that, nobody at Panasonic would ever speak to me again. P2 is not HDV. DVCPRO HD is not HDV. And so on.

For now you guys are going to have to live with its current location, but it will indeed move once we can figure out the best to reorganize and order the forum categories. Thanks a bunch,
OK, fine! Can't let Chris get into hot water, he gets good scoop from some of these folks, and we all like to hear the 'latest and greatest' from reliable sources. Thanks for considering it...case closed...so Chris, tell us what the Panny reps said about their format being compared to HDV...
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Old May 12th, 2005, 09:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Rhett Allen
Think about it, compare the price of a standard-def high end consumer camera, like the VX2000, vs a standard-def TV. Now do the same for HD-TV's and where would that leave the price range for a high end consumer or low end Professional HD video camera? I have a $400 TV (Sony WEGA) and a $4000 camera (the PD-170, the lowest end PRO camera, sorry the VX is considered a consumer camera even by Sony) so if I were to move to HD it would be safe to assume that if my TV cost (at least) $1000 my camera would cost $10K (like Panasonic's lowest end PRO camera, the HVX200)
I'm just picking nits here, so don't take this the wrong way, but a PD-170 is no longer a $4K camera.

Anyway, I agree though. The pricing of the HVX200, even including a couple 8GB P2 cards at the full extortionist MSRP price, is still not out of line if it delivers what Panny claims it will. And yes, it puts this camera right in line with the "prosumer" market segment that buys high-end HD/home theatre gear.

I think calling the HVX200 a "prosumer" camcorder goes against Panny's marketing approach and it rubs a lot of pro video guys (who are trying to find ways to justify/afford it) the wrong way... But I think that when the dust settles and all the HVX200 purchases are tabulated (if that were possible), then that is exactly what this camcorder will be. There's a lot of "prosumer" types buying the DVX100, FX1 and even the Z1 because they're into expensive gadgets with more capabilities than the typical consumer palmcorder crap. You can bet that there will be a measurable percentage buying the HVX200 with a few P2 cards because they want a camcorder that shines on their new 60"+ HDTV and HDV doesn't appeal to them. I know several guys interested in the HVX200 because of the solid state recording alone and a few of them only do video (of any kind) as a hobby. On the other hand, I think it's really cool that someone can use a $3~$6K camcorder to earn a living as many people here do.
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Old May 12th, 2005, 09:29 AM   #15
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Well, let's just say that Panasonic doesn't appreciate comparisons with HDV.

Patrick is right though, this board needs to be moved, and it will be once we get things better organized around here.
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