What about the image? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
All AG-HPX and AJ-PX Series camcorders and P2 / P2HD hardware.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 29th, 2005, 06:54 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: europe
Posts: 32
What about the image?

This whole forum is buzzing with posts about P2 cards and HD-recording options and such but what I really want to know is: how is the image quality going to be?

How is this thing going to perform in low-light? Let's face it, this camera combined with a MovieTube or Mini35 is going to be incredible, unless the low-light performance is worse than the vx2k/pd150, FX1/Z1 and DVX100...

Does anybody know when image samples and low-light specs will be released?

JD
Jay Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2005, 08:21 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 500
JVC HD100 rated 6 lux, PD170 rated 1 lux. As image quality, everyone expected JVC HD10 to be better than was and no one expected Sony FX1 to be as good as is. Just wait, see.

Radek
Radek Svoboda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2005, 11:47 AM   #3
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
Radek is correct, there's no way to predict, we just have to wait and see footage.
Barry Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2005, 01:35 PM   #4
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Quote:
How is this thing going to perform in low-light?
Why would low-light performance even matter? If you can afford to shoot with this camera plus a Mini-35, then certainly you can afford to properly light your scenes, right?
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2005, 01:57 PM   #5
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
Panasonic has stated that they intend to offer the best combination of resolution, low light sensitivity, and dynamic range that they can get.

As to what that means in real-world circumstances, that remains to be seen. Presumably it won't be as sensitive as a PD170 or DVX; those cameras have much bigger pixels that can really drink in the light. The FX1 is around two or two and a half stops slower than the PD170. I would expect the HVX should be in the same class as the FX1, or the HD100, as regards low-light sensitivity. If it's better, that would be quite an accomplishment. But I can't see how any of them could be as sensitive as the SD cameras, bigger pixels = more sensitivity, and the DVX and PD170 have pixels that are around 3x as big as the high-def cameras do.
Barry Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2005, 03:58 PM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
Why would low-light performance even matter? If you can afford to shoot with this camera plus a Mini-35, then certainly you can afford to properly light your scenes, right?
Aloha Chris,

Even though I have something like 34 2K frezzies, 24 1Ks, 30 some odd
source 4s, and 24 PAR 64s available for use in the studio I run,
leave it to some dance professor to decide
that the human eye is more important than what the camera sees
for his/her performance. Most of 'em love dim lighting,
so having a camera that can come through when the foot candles and brainwaves are almost nil
can be a good thing ;)
__________________
Jacques Mersereau
University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager
Jacques Mersereau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2005, 05:19 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: europe
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
Why would low-light performance even matter? If you can afford to shoot with this camera plus a Mini-35, then certainly you can afford to properly light your scenes, right?
Because for some projects I absolutely love available light.
It's as simple as that.

As for the bigger pixels theory: although it does hold up to a certain extent it keeps on being proven to be less of a mathematical certainty than we'd like to believe, especially in the DSLR world where newer cameras keep on outperforming the previous generation (in the sensitivity area) even though they have smaller pixels. Plus, both the VX2000/PD150 and VX2100/PD170 have the same pixel density/size yet the 2100/170 is a stop better than the 2000/150.

But, indeed, guessing is just guessing... I was hoping someone would know when the samples are to be expected... but I guess we'll have to wait a few more months.
Jay Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2005, 09:53 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: United Kindom, England
Posts: 290
Hmm but dont DSLR have "more" time to gather light since they are only taking one shot at a time? compared to a video, that has to capture an image upto 60 times a second.
Anhar Miah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2005, 10:28 AM   #9
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
No, they don't have more time to gather light... common shutter speeds in still photography can be 1/60th sec. to 1/500th sec. or even higher... what they do have though is more time to process the image. Common maximum frame rates for D-SLR's are about 5fps or so, with a maximum burst of perhaps 20 to 30 images thereabouts.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2005, 11:48 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 547
DSLR's also have the advantage of flashes. Almost all the professional photographers I've seen take flashes and lighting as given. Show up with a video camera - and that's simply not the case.

-Steve
Steven White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2005, 12:13 PM   #11
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
That's right. Professional still photographers always add light where it's needed.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2005, 12:51 PM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: europe
Posts: 32
Hmmm

Just like in cinematography, lighting is an essential element of photography and NOT using extra lighting is as much of an artistic decision as anything else.

But the reason why i compared DSLR's sensitivity with camcorders is that people used to claim that a DSLR with smaller pixels could never be more sensitive and have less noise than one with bigger pixels but it keeps on being proven wrong just because a) sensors get better and b)processing chips are better.
So I'm hoping the sensor in the HVX is as sensitive as better SD camcorders even though the pixels are a lot smaller.

But we'll see.
Jay Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2005, 05:02 PM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,222
To be fair, within the same process technology, smaller pixel areas receive less light and are therefore noisier. The latest crop of DSLRs boast better noise performance with on-board noise processing (e.g. Nikon D2H -> new D2Hs). I think this in-camera processing for JPEG images is ok, but for final pictures, I would rather have more control over the the noise reduction. Noise Ninja, Neat Image et al are fantastic programs, but applying the noise reduction to the entire image
gives the bright areas a plasticky look, smoothing out skin tones and hair.
So, I just don't see much of an overall improvement in full-image noise reduction if you are trading noise for detail.
Gints Klimanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2005, 12:09 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 76
Wait until the camera is available. Spec sheets and marketing blurbs always make out that a product is perfect in all ways. Anything can happen between dreaming up an amazing camera on paper and its actual manufacture and release. This could end up producing shit-hot images which blow our minds, or be a turkey which turns into a PR nightmare for Panasonic. Patience, fellow filmmakers, patience. My main concern is the hellish cost of the P2 cards...
__________________
Derek Antonio Serra
Indie Filmmaker
www.indv.co.za
Derek Serra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2005, 02:18 AM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 117
However Panasonic delivered with the DVX -- so why wouldn't they with the HVX200?... DVX owners probably began to trust/respect Panasonic ONLY because of that little wonderful camera.

BUT -- I see everyone is dreaming of a perfect HVX200 plus the mini35 as being the mother of all cameras. Honestly, I doubt that this set-up combination will produce perfectly acceptable large screen theatrical images - large screen being the key words here.

Yet, as of now, yes - we can only wait. Everything's possible.
Bogdan Apetri is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:14 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network