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Old April 6th, 2010, 01:41 PM   #1
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1080 30p with almost no skew on HPX300 .. yes it is possible!

I discovered something.. May have already been mentioned here before.. There is a way to shoot 1080 30p with almost no skew on the HPX300.. Put the camera in 1080 60i mode, but set the shutter on to 1/30... It's the exact same as 30p, only the file is tagged as 60i (simply set fields to none after importing into FCP). I can tell no difference.. Same sensitivity and resolution.. just without the skew :) Panasonic should simply fix the skew on this camera.. Obviously, it's a processing thing when set to 1080 24p and 30p.. The proof is in the fact that when set to 1/30 shutter in 1080 60i = skew fixed + no resolution or sensitivity change.. Wow! Of course we all know that 720 24p and 30p have reduced skew as well... hmmmm...
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Old April 6th, 2010, 04:13 PM   #2
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Or just buy a 370. Have you seen Andy Shipside's (Abel Cine) informal skew testing between the 300 and the 370? They improved it a lot on the 370, it is much less than the EX1/EX3 now. Smart move Panasonic.

Dan
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Old April 6th, 2010, 05:10 PM   #3
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But what about those of us who already own the 300? For those owners who haven't been able to capitalize their investment, for whatever reason, laying out $9000 or so dollars for an updated version of their 300, regardless of how much better it may be, will not be an easy or even reasonable decision, lest their 300 be relegated to becoming a doorstop. And for resale? With all the bad press it has received I fear that resale, for a fair amount, is a only a fantasy.
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Old April 6th, 2010, 06:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Brockett View Post
Or just buy a 370. Have you seen Andy Shipside's (Abel Cine) informal skew testing between the 300 and the 370? They improved it a lot on the 370, it is much less than the EX1/EX3 now. Smart move Panasonic.

Dan
And how to buy a 370? I'm in europe and everyone is trying to sell me a hpx-301 like there was no hpx370... and I must buy a camera now, so the only option I have is to do a bad deal. They dont even know (or dont want to tell) when will the hpx371 be available...
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Old April 6th, 2010, 07:16 PM   #5
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I can't begin to figure out why they are even going to make a 371, 372 and 374? The 370 is world standard compatible so why does the rest of the world need regionalized models? Why not make it like the EX1, everyone buys the same?

As far as the 300, yes, that is a tough break in the sense of if you have not already worked it enough to pay it off, you may lose in trying to sell it off. That is the price we pay for being on the cutting edge these days, whether with computers, cameras or cars.

I won't buy any camera these days unless I can generate enough rentals and work with it to pay it off within six months. If you cannot do this, you should be renting. And I see this envelope will get even shorter, perhaps three months soon. It is good in the sense that the 300 is still a high quality camera and is still capable of very good images so if you are the kind of person who likes to keep a camera three or four years, rock on, who cares if there is a 370?

Unfortunately it seems that Europe is always 3-6 months behind the US as far as new releases from Panasonic and Sony. I can recall how long it took for FCP to support PAL frame rates, we had been editing for almost a year in the NTSC world. Just seems to be that way, not sure why. Perhaps they have a big warehouse full of 301s that they need to sell off first?

It is unfortunate Ron but as you can see from the recent interview of one of the Panasonic US Brass, the market has drastically changed and the 370 is obviously a quick reaction to the change in the market. Panasonic now sees the 370 as their hot, mainstream camera, whereas the 300 was marketed much more as an answer to the EX3 and as a niche camera. Panasonic sees that the sales of cameras like the 2700 and 3700 will dwindle as the Recession continues. That coupled with the immense popularity of HDSLRs on the low end (and sometimes the high end!) means that the game plan has radically changed for both Sony, Red and Panasonic as well.

I do not have the money right now, but even if I did, I would not buy any camera more expensive than $3k right now, the field is shuffling too quickly. Rentals are once again looking really appealing unless you shoot constantly. Small consolation but even with my meager AG-HPX170, I rent it out to clients to $250.00 to $350.00 per day (including monitor, tripod, seven P2 cards, batteries, charger and case). I have recently seen lots of ads in LA for AG-HPX170 packages for $120.00 per day or even $400.00 per week! So much for me making my rate on my camera, how can I when I can rent one for so little money? Luckily my camera paid for itself in the first six months so it is profit but jeez, the market is quickly plunging downward. There will be financial casualties. Think about all of the poor suckers in LA who bought full on $50k RED One packages. They have gone from $2.500.00 per day rental to $2,500.00 per month. Imagine if you were making those lease or finance payments on your shiny Red One package. In LA, it is easier and sometimes cheaper to rent a $50k Red One package than to rent an AG-HPX170 or an EX1, believe it or not. Because LA is awash in RED Ones as I am sure NYC and a few other places because everyone thought it was the modern day Gold Rush. Buy one and the rentals will come.

Dan
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Old April 6th, 2010, 07:18 PM   #6
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Sorry, but I'm missing something... what have the number of frames per second to do with the shutter speed? what has the 30p (frames per second) to do with 1/30, the shutter speed of each of the frames?
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Old April 6th, 2010, 07:34 PM   #7
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I can only think they have all those versions because of the warranty. The only weapon they have to stop me from buying a camera in the U.S. (a lot cheaper than in europe) is that the warranty wont work in europe...

I totally agree... this a moment to rent. But in my country (Portugal) there is no renting culture (you can only rent high-end material), and that is a big problem for me. So, to make money I most buy a camera and doing that I must buy the HPX-301... I feel like the great victim in the middle of this story... but well, I will forget about it when I start shooting.

And yes, Dan, your intuition is right, they have a warehouse of hpx301's... and they want to sell them by the force of rebate and theatre. There is, at the moment, in europe, a wall of silence around the hpx370 series, as if it doesnt exists...
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Old April 6th, 2010, 07:37 PM   #8
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1080 30p...

By switching to 1/30 shutter in 1080 60i mode, the camera actually switches to 1080 30p instead of 1080 60i frame rate (yes, it's not interlaced, but full 30p)... Odd but it's far better than choosing 1080 30p in the setup.. I've tried both ways, and I'm just so glad I can record in 1080 30p (60i 1/30 shutter) to get far less skew.. Both modes look identical (accept for skew).. Not sure why switching to 1080 30p mode has so much more skew over forcing 30p in 60i mode??? Very strange.....

Now, if i can just find a work around for 1080 24p.. Now, I just switch the camera into 720 24p for far far far less skew....
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Old April 6th, 2010, 07:41 PM   #9
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Panasonic FIX OUR HPX300's!

Lets all start a campaign to have Panasonic offer a less skew higher sensitivity sensor upgrade/ NTSC PAL capability to the 300s! I'd be willing to pay $2000 Panasonic... yes... $2000...

:)
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Old April 6th, 2010, 07:51 PM   #10
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Yes, there shoud be a agressive campaign for the right to upgrade! and I agree $2000 is the price.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 02:09 AM   #11
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I would upgrade too as I have two 301's and will not be buying any more panasonic kit if they are going to replace models every year.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 08:09 AM   #12
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Thomas, this makes no sense whatsoever! But if you say it works then I've no reason to disbelieve you - just can't imagine how it could make a difference? Anyone got any ideas or can confirm what Thomas is seeing?
Just double-checked the date in case it was one of those April fools posts!
Steve
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Old April 7th, 2010, 10:31 AM   #13
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It would be unprecedented to allow a hardware upgrade of this type (obviously full exchange of the optical block, firmware update and who knows what else?). Not saying it is impossible, I thought it was going to be impossible that Canon was going to ever issue a 24p update/upgrade the audio sampling rate, etc. on a camera as old as the 5D MKII. Panasonic will definitely hear you if you do, but they may just say no.

It would be interesting to talk with a Panasonic technician or repair shop to find out IF it is even feasible to perform this conversion. I know that all of us, as users, think that it would just involve swapping out the optical block and a firmware update. I wonder if there are other physical items inside the camera that need to be swapped out as well to turn a 300 into a 370?

I feel for you guys who bought the 300/301 but overall, good luck, odds are that you are stuck. I would say the same to people who buy the 370, there is a very good chance that it will be outdated in a year by a 390 or ?? It is painful but the writing is on the wall, this updating in a year or under will become more and more common. You want to play with the big boys, this is a risk that you take. Look at all of the 5D MKII buyers who became incensed when Canon brought out the 7D? And all of the 7D buyers who became incensed when they brought out the T2I/550? That's just the way it is these days.

Dan
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Old April 9th, 2010, 01:06 PM   #14
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Well its been a long time since I've posted about this camera, and i said i wouldnt, but technically im posting about a new camera not the old 300 so i guess im not a lair haha.

This really bother me, as I stated many times before, why didn't panasonic just take its time and build the right camera, instead of screwing over sooo many others who bought the 300 and had so many restrictions because of its problems.

Why rush a half ass camera only to have a little while later the one they should have put out right away?

anyway, The skew problem (which was the most important problem) has been address very well. The results are much better. Yet I have to say, still unusable for real action work. I stand by my eyes. They tell me wobble in film equals no good. I am not the best DP in the world, but I sure know what it should look like, and that wobble is a no no. BUT for most work in the cine world, you can actually use the new camera in 1080p24 and have non skew issues. So for most cinematic work, the new camera will do quite well.

I feel sorry for all of those who are stuck with the old 300. This is a total "apple" move on Panasonic's part. Put out a product that everyone buys, only to put out a way better version of it, right after.

This is a lesson to everyone, do not buy a camera when it first comes out if it has problems that you need a workaround for. Most likely they will come out with another body that will be much better, and you will be out of luck.

They should really have a trade in break in the price or something. The 300 camera body is the exact same one they use for the new one, so pana can use it to build the new one with all those parts. Gotta give something back to the people.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 01:51 PM   #15
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"This is a lesson to everyone, do not buy a camera when it first comes out if it has problems that you need a workaround for. Most likely they will come out with another body that will be much better, and you will be out of luck."

The writing has always been on the wall...

PD150>PD170
VX1000>VX2000>VX2100
DVX100>DVX100A>DVX100B
HVX200>HVX200A>HPX170
5D MKII>7D>T2i/550
EX1>EX1R

It is a drag but if you took the plunge on a 300, you should have been a working pro, making money with your camera. Hobbyists and amateurs have no business buying a camera as expensive as the 300, unless they are rich and can afford expensive toys. For rich hobbyists, who cares, buy a 370 to replace the 300.

If you are working pro, you should have already paid off your 300, unless you just bought it very recently. It is a cost of doing business. I will be curious if Panasonic entertains the growing movement and rumbling of 300/301 owners for trade-in/upgrades, this should be an interesting case study on how far a large corporation is willing to go to satisfy their market. The market is hyper-competitive, it should be interesting to see if a company like a Panasonic or a Sony will bend to doing business in the way that RED seems to be doing with upgrades. Personally, I think it would be very smart but as a multi-billion dollar global conglomerate versus a boutique maker of more specialized digital cinema cameras, I would be surprised to see them adopt this. But things are changing and the customers (us) are definitely wanting change from the traditional way these products are marketed and sold. As the global Recession slowly, slowly ebbs, manufacturers may see that it is better to sell us modular updates and upgrades than to constantly develop entirely new models so often. I can't imagine sales of 3700, 2700, F23, F35s are flying out the door.

Dan
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