HPX371 Noise Issue?

[Dan Brockett]

It sounds as if this may just be a by-product of "there is no free lunch" or a "push me/pull you" scenario? Small sensors, had too much noise with the 300/301, they tweaked it and added new DSP algorithims to reduce noise, but now we are seeing motion artifacting. It may be that there is only so much that can be done with a 1/3" CMOS imager?

Dan

[Steve Phillipps]

My thoughts exactly Dan. Shame, 'cos as I said in other ways it's a lovely camera - kind of like a £5,000 Varicam (well sort of!)
Steve

[Dan Brockett]

I've shot with the 300, I love it and think it is a great camera. I hope that the issues with the 370 can be resolved as it seems like a better version of the 300/301.

Dan

[Gary Nattrass]

Firmware update released for 370 and 300:
News for P2 products
I. [Update] AG-HPX370, AG-HPX300 series
II. New CAC files for AJ-HPX3700 series etc.
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I. Updated: AG-HPX370 ,AG-HPX300 series
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AG-HPX370 series
1. Two types of P.A.P.Filters
You can choose two kinds of P.A.P. filters to improve image quality.
2. Applicable Lens models for CAC function were added.
These CAC files require updating the firmware of AG-HPX370 series.

Latest version software of AG-HPX370 seires
https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro...pghpx370_e.htm

AG-HPX300 series
Applicable Lens models for CAC function were added.
These CAC files require updating the firmware of AG-HPX300 series.

Latest version software of AG-HPX300 seires
https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro...pghpx300_e.htm

*"P2 Status logger" is available.
Log-in -> "Download P2 Status logger"
P2 Asset Support System | Broadcast and Professional AV Systems

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II.New CAC files
------------------------------------------------------------
Chromatic Aberration Compensation (CAC) is to minimize
neighboring blur, it automatically compensates the
blur that is caused mainly by lens chromatic aberration.

The CAC function is automatically activated when a lens in the CAC database is connected.
The CAC database can be updated by importing CAC files, which are
available in PASS.

The following CAC files for AJ-HPX3700, AJ-HPX2700,AJ-HPX3000 series are newly available
For Fujinon HA22X7.3BERM-M58
For Canon KJ22ex7.6B IASE / IRSE

The following CAC files for AG-HPX370 , AG-HPX300 series are newly available
For Canon KT17ex4.3B IRSD PS12

Learn more details and download CAC files:
PASS portal P2 Asset Support System | Broadcast and Professional AV Systems
Log-in > "Library" > "Utility software" > CAC Files (for P2 Camerarecoder)

[Steve Phillipps]

Check the previous page Gary - it's already been posted! Thanks though anyway, be good to hear how it performs.
Steve

[Gary Nattrass]

Hey that Niels copied my text from the DVX forum and beat me to it :0)

I didn't upgrade to the 371 as I have always been happy with the noise performance of the two 301's that we have, I would still be interested to compare the 301 and the 371 now to see if there is any difference.

[Niels Neeskens]

So what am I doing wrong here? It is recommended on the Panasonic site to check with P2 status logger if the update was correct. I updated the camera with the new firmware and it seems to be ok. I installed P2 status logger and that went well, but if I install the P2 Camdriver that comes with it I get an error that the installation of it went wrong. It still completes the installation and in the end says it is successful installed. But when I connect the HPX371 with usb and go in PC mode it says connection failed.

Anybody knows what I am doing wrong here?

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Dan Brockett

It sure would be nice if somebody experiencing this issue would post a high quality, short video sequence on Vimeo at 1080 so we could all look at it and judge as to whether this artifact is a significant limitation or merely much ado about nothing.

I only got my hands on a camera for quite a short period of time, but found it quite easy to demonstrate the effect. (See posts 19 onwards, this thread.) It is not "much ado about nothing" - the effect is variable, and whilst mostly quite slight in intensity, it's highly irritating when it occurs. People can tolerate quite high noise levels of something such as traffic noise without being disturbed, whereas something like a baby crying at a far lower sound level can be far more disturbing. This effect is a bit like the crying baby.

A colleague had the camera for a longer period than me and I asked how objectionable he found the problem. I found his answer quite interesting - "normally subtle, but a worse problem on motion than anything I ever encountered because of HDV". Now that is not saying it's severe, but considering the way Panasonic slag off long-GOP systems in general, it's pretty hypocritical for them to make light of this problem.

The news that noise reduction systems are having to be used quite aggresively in camera also has significance in many other ways. Even if this effect is not visible on any one shot, the processing may make that picture look more noise free - but it will not be able to be post processed to the extent a comparable image from more naturally noise free chips will. A bit like freezing food. When cooked, the difference between frozen and unfrozen may not be obvious with simple cooking - but you can't pretend that thawed frozen food is the same as fresh.

I seem to remember that Panasonic also promoted the 370 on it's release as "getting 1/2" performance from 1/3" sensors". Well, we now know that they only appeared to achieve it superficially, and they no longer seem to be making such claims. As Dan says a few posts back - "It may be that there is only so much that can be done with a 1/3" CMOS imager? " Very true.

I don't like to class cameras as "bad" or "good", and it's the same here. But it's worth asking what else is available for around the same price. The obvious comparison must be the Sony PMW320, which is roughly the same price when memory costs get taken into account. In a straight choice between the two, I'm now firmly convinced the PMW320 offers far better value for money.

[Steve Phillipps]

David - "It may be that there is only so much that can be done with a 1/3" CMOS imager? "


You have to then wonder about the new Canon too. It seems to have surprised various experts, appearing to perform better than they thought possible for a 1/3" camera - quite possibly clever processing again? If it is will it also cause issues? We'll have to see. There has already been a thread on here about it showing the sensor pattern on the image http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xf...n-visible.html

Steve

[Laco Zamba]

Can somebody make one simple test, please?

Two uncompressed frames 1080p AVC Intra 100 - one with P.A.P filter Type 1 and one with Type 2 ?

I rented 371, but I didn't know abou this new noise reduction. So, please, post two frames here.

Thank you

[Sanjin Svajger]

So? Did the update fix the problem? I'm very interested in this topic because I'm considering of buying this cam...

Lp
S