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Old August 25th, 2010, 01:13 PM   #16
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David,

Agreed, a poorly written press release. However, this is a lower cost 1080P, 2/3" CCD camera with lower weight and power consumption than a Sony F900R and lower power consumption than a PDW-F800. No need to use CMOS for lower cost, power and weight--I like that.

If Panasonic can bring the HPX3100 price point into the low $20K range with viewfinder, it is impressive--a full raster, 10-bit, 4:2:2, I-Frame, high bit rate, lightweight, low profile, low cost 2/3" CCD camera for potentially half the price of a Sony PDW800. Could be a great green screen camera. Pity about no 720P.

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Old August 25th, 2010, 02:26 PM   #17
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Agreed, the more CCD cameras the better!
But $20k with viewfinder? It wouldn't surprise me if it was $30k without judging by Panny's recent record, and then in 3 months they'll be a half price trade in deal!
And lower power and weight - but at a cost? Hopefully they haven't cut some corners that'll come back to bite you in the butt.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 02:51 PM   #18
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This cam looks interesting to me, looking forward to the full release with cost, specs etc.....
If It's CCD this is a winner.

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Old August 25th, 2010, 03:24 PM   #19
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It is CCD. I don't see why you'd be massively more interested in this than in the 3000 - it looks like a pretty small imporvement to me.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 03:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps
I don't see why you'd be massively more interested in this than in the 3000 - it looks like a pretty small imporvement to me.
I tend to agree - now we know there's no 720 mode, overcrank etc, it doesn't seem much of a change from the 3000 - not that there is anything wrong with the 3000 as such.

It really boils down to cost. I'd love Jeff to be right (".....If Panasonic can bring the HPX3100 price point into the low $20K range with viewfinder, it is impressive......") but I can't help feeling that if it was going to be much cheaper than the 3000, it would have been shouted about in the press release. Maybe they want to save something up for IBC, but that would also raise questions about the pricing of the whole range. What would happen to the 2100 if the 3100 sold for less?

Let's wait and see.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 03:40 PM   #21
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Steve,

The main improvement is primarily price, it would seem. An HPX3000 is $48K list, the 3700 isn't on trade-in sale currently, so that's $60K list. If a 3100 is $20K-30K, that's a difference, although, I think it should be low $20K range, given only two P2 slots, no mention of Film-Rec and what we know an HPX2700 and 3700 have sold for in the past year or so with trade-in program.

If the DNR doesn't soften the image or add other artifacts, 59db would be impressive. Some might find the SD modes useful at times. Lighter weight, lower profile, power consumption is nice.

I really can't imagine anybody buying an HPX3000 at this point, nor an HPX3700 potentially(assuming normal list pricing on both)--a camera that should never have been called a Varicam, IMO. The 2700 still offers some unique features, but I would think the 3100, if priced right, could do decently well.

A Sony PDW-F800, while being more flexible in frame rates, is $42K.

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Old August 25th, 2010, 03:45 PM   #22
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Nice to see we agree on something David - it doesn't seem to happen that often! lol

Jeff, yes if that's the case then it would be interesting. We'll have to wait and see. Let's see who's closer to the mark - you with your $20k inc VF or mine $30k without!

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Old August 25th, 2010, 05:19 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jeff Regan View Post
The main improvement is primarily price, it would seem. .... If a 3100 is $20K-30K, .......
Do you have solid information about that, Jeff?

You've got me looking at UK prices. The 2700 and 3000 both seem to be about 25,000 on the street (with v/f, but no lens), the 2100 is about 19,000.
Quote:
A Sony PDW-F800, while being more flexible in frame rates, is $42K.
The PDW800 is about 30,000 here, but surely the PDW700 is the obvious rival to the 3100? Like the 3100 it doesn't do variable frame rates (though it is 720/1080) but in many other respects it seems very comparable. That seems to be just below 20,000 - though you then have to add in a v/f.

So it would make sense for the 3100 to be priced somewhere between the current street pricing of the 2100 and 3000 - exactly matching the PDW700 - and I find that quite probable. At that point, there probably isn't a lot to choose between them in quality, it probably comes down more to whether you want solid state or disc and I can see pros and cons to each.

To be honest I'm more interested in the next level down, and I'd like to see some competition for Sonys PMW350, even if just to force Sony into putting the 50Mbs XDCAM codec onto it.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 05:43 PM   #24
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David,

Great theory. The 700 is $30,900, right around where Steve thinks the 3100 will be priced, with viewfinders extra in both cases. I have no pricing info from Panasonic, but have some feelers out.
HPX3100 and AF100 pricing announcements will be made at IBC.

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Old August 25th, 2010, 06:13 PM   #25
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Well Jeff, if you are right, then that would make the 3100 about 2/3 of the PDW700 cost - so about 14-15,000 on the street in the UK without lens. If you're not interested in the kit lens, that may then become extremely tempting to a lot more people than if it's just a PDW700 rival for cost - it starts to rival the PMW350.

I'm sure we will revisit this after IBC...... :)
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Old August 26th, 2010, 07:31 AM   #26
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So is the 3100.. a much cheaper version of the 3700.. but with a simpler menu.. eg only one DRS setting,only one film-rec setting..less scene files etc.. only the 2 slots..(who would ever want to shoot 5 X 64GB in a day) I guess only 1 HD-SDI out?

If the front is the same.. and for those who seldom shoot 720p.. it would seem a good buy instead of the 3700.. unless you are doing drama work..

HDX900 viewfinder and mic should also work I believe.. does on the 3700..

Last edited by Robin Probyn; August 26th, 2010 at 07:32 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:33 AM   #27
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No Robyn, it's a cheaper version of the HPX3000. The 3700 does variable frame rates from 1-30fps, while the 3000 and 3100 will only do 24, 25 and 30P.
And the 3700 does NOT do 720 either. This is where David's comparison of the PDW700 and the HPX3100 gets skewed in favour of the PDW700 as it will do both 1080 and 720. There was some question as to how well the 700 would do 720P but the answer is very well, I shot a fair bit and it looks really nice with no obvious issues. Shame you can't mix 720 and 1080 on the same disc and that it's Long GOP so can't be conformed for slomo without first transcoding to an I frame codec (taking time and losing some quality).
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:35 AM   #28
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In fact it's always been a bit questionable exactly where the 3700 fits in - it doesn't do slow motion (if you want that you need the 2700). So that leaves you with all the frame rate standards (24, 25 and 30P) which the HPX3000 does too, and the only thing extra you then get is the ability to shoot at things like 16fps and 27fps, 11fps etc. - who the hell needs that?!
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Old August 26th, 2010, 01:36 PM   #29
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I've heard $29,800 for the HPX3100, about $4,000 for the viewfinder.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 01:49 PM   #30
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29,800? Steve wins!

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