Hpx 600

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

Sheesh, this is a thread about the HPX600. The 350 has its own thread.

Surely any buying decision follows two basic steps. Firstly, does any product fit the amount of money you're prepared to spend, and is it at all fit for purpose? Assuming the answer to that is "yes", then it's sensible to further ask if there's any competition that will either do the same job more cheaply, or a better job for the same price?

And that's the relevance of all this talk of firstly the PMW350, and now the PMW400...... We're not talking about PMW350/400 detailed characteristics for their own sake, rather as the obvious competition - is it a better buy?

And I still prefer the internal codec of the 600.

And no real argument there compared to the 350, though the front end differences (in favour of the 350) are evident on raw viewing, codec differences only make any difference down the chain. The HPX600 also has points in it's favour in terms of networking/upload ability in some circumstances. But the PMW400 answers all those criticisms, and additionally still beats the HPX600 hands down in respect of front end performance. In which case, why on earth even still bother to consider the HPX600, unless the PMW400 is going to be more expensive? When I buy a camera I just want best value for money, I don't care which manufacturer gets my money.

And the relevance of Sanjin's post about the 350 pricing is that the 400 is not expected to be more expensive, quite the opposite. Heck, you earlier wrote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

But the PMW400 sure looks nice. I wonder what the price will be, with an EVF. I'm betting the 600 is cheaper, price wise. But with one chip, it ought to be.

We're trying to give you the answer to your pricing questions! It seems you just want to find in favour of the HPX600, even though all the evidence is against it! Valid though the "the 600 has a better codec than the 350" point may be, even that gets blown out of the water when compared with the 400.

[Glen Vandermolen]

Until we see an actual price, it's all speculation as to which camera - the HPX600 and the PMW400 - is a better value for the money, or for each person's needs, or which gets "blown out of the water."
We'll know soon enough.

As for me, as I've stated here numerous times, I'm already invested in P2. Of course the Panny makes more sense for me. That's why I post in this thread, to gather more info.

And I never brought up the comparisons to the Sony cams, because I never considered buying the PMW350. Others have done that. I've responded (foolishly) to the comparisons, usually as they matter to MY needs. And as far as my needs, I was never interested in the PMW350, with or without an external drive. I never asked for a comparison, never will.
Now, it's fair to compare the 600 and 400 cameras, as I feel they'll compete for the same business, but I'm posting here to get info about the 600 camera, not the Sonys. They do have a separate forum for that, see below.

So, if you have any new info about the HPX600, please post it here.
If you have any new info on the Sonys, please post it here:

Sony XDCAM EX CineAlta Forum at DV Info Net

If you want to start an HPX600 vs PMW-350/400 thread, go ahead and create one.

That said, I am done responding to any more posts about the camera comparisons in this thread. It serves no purpose for me.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

Until we see an actual price, it's all speculation as to which camera - the HPX600 and the PMW400 - is a better value for the money,............

It's a matter of record - not speculation - that the PMW400 will market "pricewise, close to a PMW350". That's straight from Sony - Sony Professional: NAB 2013 - Introducing the new PMW-400 camcorder : Sony Professional , about 3 minutes in. Not an exact price, but good enough to start drawing some conclusions from. (Yes, for the 400, not the 350.)

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

I'm already invested in P2. Of course the Panny makes more sense for me.

If you take Sanjin's prices, and assuming the PMW400 is close to PMW350 prices, it may make sound economic sense to ditch the P2 cards and go SxS.

Think about it. Using Sanjin's figures there's a Euro 4,000 difference between those packages. Using the same supplier as Sanjin, a 64GB SxS card is well under Euro500 - and that's about 2 hours recording at 50Mbs. Let's say we want 8 hours total recording time, so still less than Euro2,000 - less than half the price difference between the two packages!

In other words, even after getting 8 hours worth of SxS cards, you're still saving over Euro2,000 compared to getting the HPX600 package and still have your P2 cards to sell.

As for new info about the HPX600, then the trouble is there isn't any! I've asked around, and nobody I know is even bothering to give it formal testing - it's been dismissed at an early stage. Make of that what you will. I'd dearly like to see the results on a zone plate out of curiosity, just to settle once and for all just what the chip is - but nothing. The assumption from informal viewing is 1920x1080, and there's a few things to back that up, but no definitive answer. Someone I know did try to ask a direct question, but no luck with any answer.

[Gary Nattrass]

I agree with David here and as a panasonic user I have been given little information about the 600, my 1/3" chip HPX301 and 371 are due for replacement next year so it may be time to go back to sony as the 400 ticks a lot of the boxes for me.

For info a lot of people are already using the 350 for broadcast and the 35mbs codec is generally accepted for sport and news operation as the EX1 and 3 are also very popular.

[Glen Vandermolen]

Speaking of popular:

The Sony PMW-300, the EX3 replacement has finally arrived! XDCAM 422 and XAVC! | XDCAM-USER.COM


I'm keeping an eye out for this bad boy!

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Gary Nattrass

........my 1/3" chip HPX301 and 371 are due for replacement next year so it may be time to go back to sony as the 400 ticks a lot of the boxes for me.

By next year it's highly likely that Sony may have upgraded the PMW320 in a similar way to all the other 35Mbs cameras in the range.

Price wise, that's likely to be far less than a PMW400 (or HPX600) yet may still tick enough boxes if 2/3" isn't a necessity?

In fact, price wise probably very comparable with a HPX371 - but 1/2" sensors versus 1/3". Which will give it a stop advantage in terms of sensitivity, dof and diffraction limiting.

[Glen Vandermolen]

Folks, from what I just learned, an HPX600 with the AVC-Ultra upgrade will be capable of 1080/60P!
That's quite an upgrade.

[Myles Williams]

Recently I had an opportunity to test the Panasonic HPX600. I shoot for a team competing in the Pirelli World Challenge Sports Car series in North America. The rules for video at the track are more or less no tripods so its very run and gun like. I had to use clips that I wont use in the clients video for this particular race but wanted to post some basic clips to show some aspects of what this camera looks like. Especially since there is next to no real footage on the internet.

I did no CC. I only adjusted exposure on a few clips with no color boost etc. The camera is in Cine-V mode, 24p and AVC INTRA 50. I shot INTRA 50 because I only had a 16gig P2 card and had to make it last.

For me I wanted to see how the skewing would be for panning and following cars. I couldnt use those shots in this as those will be used for the clients video. Previously my ENG camera was the JVC 700/750 which is CCD so panning wasnt an issue at all. I also have been using my AF100 for the last year covering racing and the client LOVES that look. So it was interesting to shoot with an ENG camera again, to say the least.

This weekend I plan to actually go out and do some night shots and garden shots, contrast etc etc.

Hope you enjoy.

Myles

PANASONIC HPX600 TEST CLIPS on Vimeo

[Glen Vandermolen]

Myles,
Thanks for the video! Your footage looks great. especially some of the "test subjects." ;-)
For run-n-gun, a shoulder mount can't be beat.

I'm looking forward to seeing more video from you.

So, how do you like the camera? I got to play with one at a demo, and I really liked it. But that was only for an hour, stuck in a room. I'd like to hear you thoughts on using one in the field, for a paying client. How does it compare to the JVC? Is it about the same weight?
How did you get the 600? Is it a rental?

[Myles Williams]

Thanks Glen. I actually really like it. Like most I read about the unit being a single C-MOS etc and of course I had my doubts about C-MOS and Skewing and remembered the HPX300 skewing issues. So I shot a few clips and immediately uploaded them to see and was surprised. For me its hard to take a camera on a gig and doubt its abilities so with some reassurance of decent performance I took it with me. I also shoot with the AF100 and are realizing now in post that the 2 cams work well together.

Its typical Pani build and quality. The feel of the camera is robust. The 17x lens was nice to use after shooting with 25mm and pulling focus 24/7. Its also nice to run and gun in a single weekend and shoot those 2 styles back to back. I shot indoor in various lighting situations and the camera tackles those very easily. I Was most surprised with the pop of the color. The AF100 tends to be flat and then I color grade. This camera had a nice amount of color "pop", if you will and that was nice when shooting the colorful cars.

The only thing that I missed was an actual LCD. Getting low shots was a little difficult without it.

I'm interested to see how this does back to back against the HPX 3100 since its CCD and slightly older.

Once I'm done my current edit I will share the video.

Myles Williams

[David Heath]

Firstly Miles, nice camerawork, but with having been shot in AVC-Intra 50 and allowing for vimeo compression, I suspect they may tell us more about your craft abilities than technicalities?

Looking back at this thread, I've been one of the critical voices, but that is in relative terms. It's not a case of if the HPX600 is "good" or "bad", more one of whether anything comparable is available which is either the same quality but cheaper, or better and the same price? I wouldn't expect anything costing over $15,000 to yield results which could be even remotely described as "bad" - not in the hands of a good cameraman, anyway!

And look back, and the PMW400 was seen as the obvious comparison. On June 11th, Glen Vandermolen posted:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

Until we see an actual price, it's all speculation as to which camera - the HPX600 and the PMW400 - is a better value for the money, or for each person's needs, or which gets "blown out of the water."
We'll know soon enough.

Well, now we do know. A month ago, I'd been working on the basis of statements that the PMW400 would be close to PMW350 pricing, and hence speculating would be similar in price to the HPX600. I was wrong. By over $2,000. But......

B&H are now listing pricing and delivery dates for the PMW400 - end of August, and $17,350..... yes $17,350 for camera/v/f/lens package. That compares with their list of $19,500 for the HPX600, also as a camera/v/f/lens package. See http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/966238-REG/sony_pmw_400k_3cmos_2_3_hd422_camcorder.html and http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/906083-REG/panasonic_ag_hpx600pjf_ag_hpx600_camcorder_with_ag_cvf15.html

So the HPX600 is well over $2,000 dearer than a like for like PMW400 package - and it's single chip versus three chip! It's not a case of an alternative being better or cheaper - it's a case of better AND cheaper!!

[Glen Vandermolen]

David, i knew you'd show up.
Please quit trolling the Panasonic threads. Go buy a Sony 400. Make yourself happy.
This is a thread about the Panasonic HPX600. For those who wish to share information about the HPX600. Do you understand that concept?

WHY DO YOU ALWAYS INSIST UPON INVADING THESE THREADS AND TRYING TO SELL SONY CAMERAS??????

We know, you think Panasonic sucks. We got that. I swear, do you have some kind of bizarre fixation against Panasonics? God, you're so predictable!

Did we ask for a comparison? Did you see anyone ask you for a comparison?
If we want info about the PMW400 we can go to the Sony sections.

WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT PANASONICS!! THERE ARE MANY POSTS YOU'VE MADE ON THAT SAME SUBJECT, OVER AND OVER!! WE CAN JUST LOOK THEM UP!
WHY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT????

Please take your Sony info to the Sony sections - please!!!!
Let us discuss the HPX600 in peace!

[Myles Williams]

Thanks David for the kind words! I dont own the HPX600 and I am aware of the PMW400 coming. As a Sony F3 owner I am curious how well the "400" will match to the F3. I know, I know,..ti should be able to be matched without too much work, but man the Abel Cine scene files in the AF100 match very well with the "600" and that without much effort. As an occasional Steadicam op the auto focus on the PMW 400( hiding behind a sofa now) does appeal to me some what in a semi run & gun scenario when shooting WIDE in the pit lane and not being able to really focus etc. A common shot is a tight, low shot of the wheel of a car to pit out and then hold it as goes down the pit lane. very hard when pulling focus on a large sensor and not easy with a 15lb camera on a Scout while watching for other cars coming in at the same time. So there are a "few" times when autofocus saves the day.

Other than that the 3 chip of the Sony in theory should be solid as we all know from the PMW350.

I will say I like the look and feel of the Fujinon lens on this HPX600.

I did shoot a few things in AVC INTRA-100 and I can honestly say I see the difference in detail in the blacks and shadows etc. I took some footage into the broadcast trailer and viewed a few simple clips and WOW......its impressive.

So no....I have no plans to get big brothers to both AF100 and F3's. I have to choose one of the other. The AF100 and F3 are easy to match for a cooking show I produce so they have to stay. I am now feeling like I "need" a 2/3" ENG camera in the stable. Its either that or get a 18-85 prime zoom and I cant stomach that. ...not at this stage.........
..Yet !

Mw.

[Myles Williams]

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

David, i knew you'd show up.
Please quit trolling the Panasonic threads. Go buy a Sony 400. Make yourself happy.
This is a thread about the Panasonic HPX600.

Fixed that for you !

[Glen Vandermolen]

I'm sorry, Myles.
Please, continue with your thoughts and experiences with the HPX600. You're one of the few on this forum who've actually has real time with one.