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Old December 3rd, 2012, 03:12 PM   #1
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Client Wants Red Epic, not our HVX200

I have a dumb question.

We currently shoot with a HVX200. I have a new music video client that wants me to shoot with a Red Epic because he saw a couple video's on youtube that had the definition he is looking for.

I qouted him for the job accounting for rental, and a camera operator because I am too scared to shoot with it a camera I don't know a-lot about.

Then he tells me the delivery is going to be Blu-ray and Youtube. Now this is my question,

If its Youtube and I shoot in 1080p with my camera, provided lighting is comparable, and initial image capture is comparable, will he even be able to see the difference? I've seen sample Red footage via youtube and sample footage via my camera and they both look great.

Blu-ray delivery should be similar too, correct? I was under the impression that no T.V. could really display 5k anyway. I think im missing something.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 03:19 PM   #2
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Re: Client Wants Red Epic, not our HVX200

If the client is willing and able to pay for a camera op and rental why not provide it for them? You will be able to get some "seat time" with new gear and maybe pick up some useful info from a fellow shooter.

You will also get a first person answer to the image comparison question you have.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 04:02 PM   #3
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Re: Client Wants Red Epic, not our HVX200

You shouldn't use Youtube to compare cameras, there's so much compression going on that you're seeing more of their transmission chain than the differences between cameras. The RED is used on productions that will be 1080p, the oversampling, the increased dynamic range plus increased sensitivity offers real advantages. Also, you have the shallower DOF option with the large sensor. I suspect the increased resolution mightn't be the only thing you notice.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 04:03 PM   #4
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Re: Client Wants Red Epic, not our HVX200

You should deliver the product that you quote. Its the right thing to do.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 05:11 PM   #5
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Re: Client Wants Red Epic, not our HVX200

Since the client's footing the bill, go for it. But make sure you have a competent camera operator.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 06:08 PM   #6
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Re: Client Wants Red Epic, not our HVX200

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Reynolds View Post
We currently shoot with a HVX200. I have a new music video client that wants me to shoot with a Red Epic because he saw a couple video's on youtube that had the definition he is looking for.

...........Then he tells me the delivery is going to be Blu-ray and Youtube. Now this is my question,

If its Youtube and I shoot in 1080p with my camera, .......... will he even be able to see the difference?

Blu-ray delivery should be similar too, correct?
Not correct. As Brian says, don't base camera comparisons on Youtube, there's a lot of compression going on there. And Blu-Ray delivery will show up camera differences far more, it's likely to be full 1920x1080 resolution with relatively mild compression.

If you want the technical reasons, the HVX200 has chips with 960x540 resolution. It uses a technique called pixel shift to bring the actual luminance resolution up to about 1150x650 - which matches the resolution of the 720p system quite well. But compared to a camera with true 1920x1080 imaging it will look soft, at least if viewed on a true 1920x1080 screen. Worse, it's likely to need more detail enhancement than the true 1920x1080 camera - and that often equates more to "video look".

If you don't want it in technical terms, just shoot side by side scenes with an HVX200 and a true 1920x1080 camera like an EX1 and view on a 1920x1080 display - and see the difference.

The HVX200 was fine when most displays couldn't manage any better than about 1 megapixel resolution, it matched their abilities well. But times have moved on, displays and Blu-Ray are now likely to be 1920x1080 (over 2 megapixel).

All that said, I wonder if a Red may not be somewhat overkill, and it does have a more demanding post route? Maybe something like a Canon C300 will still give a very significant performance improvement over the HVX200 without a lot of the expense and complication of the Red?
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 09:52 PM   #7
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Re: Client Wants Red Epic, not our HVX200

Thank you!

I'm going to shoot with the Red Epic regardless, if the client wants too. I just don't want the client to get over his head on what he expects on delivery for the price.

The client has decided to let me rent something else that will shoot 4k. Like you said about the C300, much better than our HVX200, but not overkill with the RED.

Mark...of course. That goes without saying. I am not trying to rip the guy off, i'm trying to help him make a better camera decision. Especially since he doesn't really know much about cameras.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 03:32 AM   #8
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Re: Client Wants Red Epic, not our HVX200

I would have thought that the C300 would be more manageable than a RED, people see completed RED footage and think that is what comes out of the camera but you need to factor in the lighting and post workflows that tend to be required with RED too.

I am always amazed that people tend to accept my humble HPX371 most of the time as soon as you mention extra hire costs for anything else and if it's for you tube or blu ray it is perfectly capable but if they want shallow DOF then they have to pay for the kit hire!
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Old December 4th, 2012, 06:06 AM   #9
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Re: Client Wants Red Epic, not our HVX200

I would definitely check out your post workflow with the RED before you go too far and discover that you're trying to turn it around in a tight schedule. See if the rental house will let you record some R3D files to test.
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