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Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
All AG-HPX and AJ-PX Series camcorders and P2 / P2HD hardware.


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Old December 30th, 2005, 01:33 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaku Ito
Something like that. Oh, also the raw archive of P2 content is up, but maybe not open to public yet.

I had shot some tonight. Some came out okay.
24p at 1/24 is good even in the night with little light and gain at zero. I will post more tomorrow.

Make sure that it's 24p at 1/48th. No 1/24th, unless for a test shot. 1/24th has way to much blur. Make sure to shoot at 1/48th when in 24p...
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Old December 30th, 2005, 01:43 PM   #47
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Ok now Im disapointed, it seem Avid Xpress PRO HD support up to DVCPRO 50, not 100 !!! Anyone got the DVCPRO HD content to load in avid ?
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Old December 30th, 2005, 05:13 PM   #48
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From what I was told...

...Only for MACS Marc. Avid Xproess Pro HD will not handle DVCPRO-HD of any kind in MAC. To cut DVCPRO-HD on a MAC, you are limited to Final Cut Pro. There are no other programs that work.

For PC, you can use Avid Xpress Pro HD to cut DVCPRO-HD footage, but only at a select few frame rates.
Xpress Pro HD does not support 1080p24 or have provisions for doing the pulldown either. it only cuts 1080i59.97 & 1080i50. If you want to cut 1080p24 footage from the HVX200 then you have to capture it with the $80k high priced Avid Adrenaline only. After you do that, you can finally bring into Xpress Pro HD and cut it.
Additionally it will not support any of the variable frame rates for 720p other then 24 and 60. This is good for the Varicam because it can shoot 720p24 or 720p23.976(dropframe). I am not sure if the HVX can shoot anything other then 720p23.976, so if you're 720p24 footage has dropdown in it(23.976) then it can't be captured with Avid Xpress Pro either. It must also be captured with Avid Adrenaline first and then finally brought over to Xpress Pro HD. This is all what I was told when investigating if I should switch from Vegas to Avid.

I suppose this is why nobody cuts in HDCAM or HDV or DVCPRO-HD using low cost NLE's. It's always cut in a proxy file. (usually DV) Ofcourse, if you have a high price NLE like Avid Adrenaline or Nitris ($80,000 & $110,000 repectively) then you just cut the stuff uncompressed and don't worry about anything. *smile*

Either way, PC owners are gonna have some serious troubles handling native DVCPRO-HD footage until these companies pan out the issues. In the mean time, make a DV proxy or cut it uncompressed if you have the $$$.

MAC users got it made!

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Old December 30th, 2005, 05:21 PM   #49
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Mac users do have it made. When I first tried using the Vegas workaround with DVFilm Maker and the Avid codec and got 4fps playback, and then saw a lowly 1.33ghz G4 laptop playing full-screen, full-res, full-frame-rate HD, I was tempted to make the switch right then and there. Only thing that is really holding me back is the whole thing about whether Intel Mac laptops will be introduced at MacWorld in a week or two.

As for PC, Canopus has (from all reports I've heard) a rock-solid implementation.

I was unaware of the limitations you're describing for Avid on the PC; I'll ask Michael Phillips if he can weigh in and explain things further.
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Old December 30th, 2005, 05:28 PM   #50
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Yes, I think Canopus will capture & cut ALL FORMS of DVCPRO-HD no matter what you throw at it. But investigate that, I am not for sure, But I beleive it does. Only thing is....I don't know about using this Canopus EDIUS stuff. I know they are doing some HEAVY advertising and some SERIOUS R&D to position themselves to be up there with the big/known boys. But I mean, if I have to leave Vegas, then *shrugging shoulders* let me leave for a NLE people know about. One I can exchange files with easily.....like AVID. ya know?

And about them MAC users Barry.....You ain't neva lied brutha!
I went to the MAC store at The Grove the other day when me and wifey went to see King Kong.
Them G5's were might tempting!!
Not to mention a record producer buddy of mine has a full-on Pro-Tools HD studio and his MAC is pumping out records for him like a pied piper. It's amazing. Plus that program "SOUNDTRACK PRO" is just a god-send for those who want to score their own movies. (like me) Nothing compares to it for PC.

I was thinking today.....Maybe I should get a MAC??
That way I'll get Pro-Tools, FCP, Soundtrack and simply do all my "MEDIA STUFF" in my MAC system and do "BUSINESS STUFF" on my PC.

Then I realized, if I go DVCPRO-HD...it might make sense. But if I stay HDV, then MAC sucks like the rest of 'em. Especially with that "Capture now, Catch-up later and don't unplug your camera" method of ingesting HDV it uses now. CineForm has basically SAVED the PC's when it comes to HDV, thank goodness for them.

So what do I do as a PC user? ...... wait patiently. lol
If Sony Vegas don't do something fast...I may be a new G5 owner soon.

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Old December 30th, 2005, 05:50 PM   #51
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Good...
It's not just me trying to get something decent out of AVID Xpress Pro HD (PC). No MAC :(

Man, I'm about this close to pulling my fcking hair out and not buying the HVX and buying the Canon XLH1 or JVC HD100 instead.

Will I be able to use Vegas with these cameras without going fcking nuts!

Sorry if I seem agitated,
Steve
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Old December 30th, 2005, 05:54 PM   #52
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Naw Steve,

Don't do that. Don't worry about the post production flow so much right now(dec '05). Choose the HVX-200 or the XL-H1 based on your PRODUCTION flow for next year (2006). That's what is important and where you put your money.

Post Production will catch up for HDV & DVCPRO-HD very soon for both cameras. So that's not so important right now.

Let your decision be based on your future Production flow.

Both cameras produce a remarkable picture. We all know that. Now pick your camera based on features & price. Should be easy for you.

Beleive it or not, my first project I'm doing with my XL-H1 is a new Aerobic Workout DVD Video being shot with 3 HD cameras in 1080i60 (or 30p if I can convince them). We shoot it next weekend on the 7th & 8th. I could care less about post production as I care about Production and which cameras work best for me in this situation right now.
The following weekend on the 14th & 15th I'm producing a Comedy Vignette for a friend of mine called "The Surrogate Photographer". It's about a door-to-door baby photographer who is allowed to screw this man's wife who is home waiting on a sperm donor that's late because he's caught in traffic. We'll be shooting that at 1080p24.
So you see.....it's all about PRODUCTION at this point. Let that be your determining factor. When you determine what you do, you'll chose a camera easily.

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Old December 30th, 2005, 06:00 PM   #53
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Hey Barry - wait for a week. Stevo himself is getting up on stage - and he only does that when he's got something to wow with, and it better not be another freak'n iPod. ('less of course he's in full RDF mode - but it can't hurt to wait.)
The pb range is in dire need of a face lift - Yonah is officially released by Intel in the next day or so, just before MWSF. So yeah, hopefully dual core pb's.

The real issue is when Apple will release pro app software optimised for Intel and not running on top of Rosetta (emulated) on an Intel machine, most people are expecting a little bit of a performance hit in this case.
Hope that helps.
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Old December 30th, 2005, 06:08 PM   #54
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Thanks Shannon !

I was starting to slip.
I'm back now.

Steve
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Old December 30th, 2005, 08:17 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob McCardle
Hey Barry - wait for a week. Stevo himself is getting up on stage - and he only does that when he's got something to wow with, and it better not be another freak'n iPod. ('less of course he's in full RDF mode - but it can't hurt to wait.)
The pb range is in dire need of a face lift - Yonah is officially released by Intel in the next day or so, just before MWSF. So yeah, hopefully dual core pb's.

The real issue is when Apple will release pro app software optimised for Intel and not running on top of Rosetta (emulated) on an Intel machine, most people are expecting a little bit of a performance hit in this case.
Hope that helps.
I totally agree with you here.
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Old December 30th, 2005, 08:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pappas
Make sure that it's 24p at 1/48th. No 1/24th, unless for a test shot. 1/24th has way to much blur. Make sure to shoot at 1/48th when in 24p...
I was doing some 1/24 on purpose because I wanted to get the blur on the onboard shooting with my bike and it was very dark. Making it 1/24 helped to get what I wanted.
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Old December 30th, 2005, 08:48 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls
So what do I do as a PC user? ...... wait patiently. lol
If Sony Vegas don't do something fast...I may be a new G5 owner soon.
You're exactly where I am then.

I am thinking along the same lines -- I really, really want to stay in Vegas, but without support, I've got to look elsewhere. And while Canopus has some awfully deep pockets now (they were just bought by Thomson), they still have a tiny installed base vs. Avid and FCP.

I'm thinking Canopus, because I'm a "closed shop" -- I don't do editing for others. If I was an editor-for-hire, no question I'd go FCP or Avid. I'm really tempted by the FCP thing, but there's four main reasons I hesitate:

1) new Intel macs are coming, and rumors are that the Intel powerbooks might be announced less than two weeks from now. Do I really want to go dump a whole lot of money into an end-of-the-line product when the beginning of the future line is so close?

2) Not all that thrilled with the "ingest P2" part of FCP. I'd much rather it had native MXF support like Canopus does.

3) What if Vegas DOES come out with proper support? Man, I'd leap back on that like Michael Moore at Thanksgiving dinner. So would I really want to shell out $4,000 for a Mac and FCP Studio, when it might turn out to be a temporary/stopgap measure?

4) Serious Magic DV/HD Rack. If they announce it, no way could I live without it, and it'll be PC-only.

That's why I keep thinking about Canopus -- they have what is reported to be the best integration and best HVX support, and at least it doesn't require a platform change. If it's brilliant I could stick with it, and if it's not-so-brilliant, well, maybe it'll tide me over until Vegas gets around to releasing proper support. Or, if they're not going to, at least we'd know that too, instead of hanging in limbo.

With that said, I am still extraordinarily tempted to just jump ship and get the Apple anyway, since I know it works and editing HD on one of those is as seamless as editing DV has been.
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Old December 30th, 2005, 11:31 PM   #58
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I like Avid because they offer a FREE limited version for starters that does the job. Im having problem loading the MXF clip by Kaku in the full HD version too... I havent figured it out
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Old December 31st, 2005, 12:39 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls
I suppose this is why nobody cuts in HDCAM or HDV or DVCPRO-HD using low cost NLE's. It's always cut in a proxy file. (usually DV) Ofcourse, if you have a high price NLE like Avid Adrenaline or Nitris ($80,000 & $110,000 repectively) then you just cut the stuff uncompressed and don't worry about anything. *smile*

Either way, PC owners are gonna have some serious troubles handling native DVCPRO-HD footage until these companies pan out the issues. In the mean time, make a DV proxy or cut it uncompressed if you have the $$$.

MAC users got it made!

- ShannonRawls.com
From what I've heard, VelocityHD is comparable in handling native DVCPROHD just as the online Avid systems, including 1080 24p. And, if it is an option for one, a VelocityHD system with this support starts at $30,000, which looks like one of the better PC options now, but not affordable, software-based PC solutions. It is mainly hardware based, and marketed as an 'online' editor somewhat similar to, say, Chrome and Adrenaline.

I think the next logical step for NLE's is to create this affordable 1080 p, i and f support for both HDV and DVCProHD, and hopefully soon, with all these new cameras!
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Old December 31st, 2005, 12:56 AM   #60
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Barry-

"1) new Intel macs are coming, and rumors are that the Intel powerbooks might be announced less than two weeks from now. Do I really want to go dump a whole lot of money into an end-of-the-line product when the beginning of the future line is so close?

2) Not all that thrilled with the "ingest P2" part of FCP. I'd much rather it had native MXF support like Canopus does.

3) What if Vegas DOES come out with proper support? Man, I'd leap back on that like Michael Moore at Thanksgiving dinner. So would I really want to shell out $4,000 for a Mac and FCP Studio, when it might turn out to be a temporary/stopgap measure?

4) Serious Magic DV/HD Rack. If they announce it, no way could I live without it, and it'll be PC-only."


1. No you wouldn't - you'd wait for MWSF.
Worst case - say you did jump now because you had to for some reason <shrug> It's not like a PPC machine is going to be redundant in two years time.

2. fcp 5.04 has some weirdo ingest ? Not on my menu - that was a stop gap as best I can understand. 5.04 update pdf

3. What if Sony do - what if they don't ? Don't think anyone who has made the switch to fcp regards it as a temp stop gap.
Shoot - ask any PC Avid editor who leapt across. They absolutely hate fcp for first two weeks to a month. Then they come to appreciate it - fcp is non modal.

4. Well - you've still got yer Winbox/s for this scenario. You're not going to offload them immediately just because you bought a Mac.

Damn sure you know all of the above anyway, you must get to see and have a play on so many systems ... but for other PC users.

<flame suit on>

edit: Kaku - want to thank you again for your effort in getting all of these clips up for us. Really, man - absolutely fantastic.

Happy New Year to all.

Last edited by Rob McCardle; December 31st, 2005 at 01:34 AM.
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