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Old December 31st, 2005, 02:40 PM   #76
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Weaver
There's also a 1080i24PA mode on the HVX, akin to PA mode on the DVX. That would be a pattern of 5 frames also, all being progressive but #5 being a repeat of #4.
Minor correction -- the repeat frame isn't progressive, it's actually a split frame between the one before it and the one after it. So if you're looking at a 24PA sequence on a computer in a 60i timeline, you would see interlacing on the duplicate frame. On a proper implementation of a 24p timeline, that duplicate frame will be dropped and you'll only ever see the original pure 24p sequence.
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Old December 31st, 2005, 02:50 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Hohauser
What is happening to the MXF file when it is being re-wrapped as a Quicktime? Is the data recompressed, leading to possible artifacts, or is it being adjusted for optimal editing in a QuickTime system without affecting the image and sound?
The video data is not touched, it stays exactly as it was, they just change the wrapper. I'm not aware of any changes to the audio.

However, it does break the association with the metadata. The MXF system lets you have all sorts of associated files and information about the clip including an icon that represents it, text memos that describe it, and all sorts of camera data and the serial number of the camera that shot the footage and the serial number of the card that it was recorded on, and just all sorts of stuff. On the bigger cameras there's even provision for an MPEG-4 low-rez proxy file, and GPS satellite positioning info. All of that stuff, and more, is tied to the file in the MXF structure.

Rewrapping the file as Quicktime discards all that info.

If you keep the MXF files as MXF then you can reference back to it and see the info, but that adds another step and makes media management your hassle, rather than the integrated MXF system which takes care of it for you.

Quote:
How long does it take and what are the potential problems?
It takes about "real time", or a minute per gig, depending on the speed of your computer and the speed of your drives. Now, truth be told, time isn't that much of a problem. It's an annoyance, but if you were going to be copying the files to your hard disk then it's six-of-one, half-dozen-of-another -- it takes about as long to copy the MXF's to your hard disk as it does to import/rewrap.

The major drawbacks are: what if you'd shot on a CinePorter or FireStore? Or if you offloaded the footage to a portable hard disk? With the Apple you'll still have to "import" the footage, spending time that you really shouldn't have to, seeing as the footage is already on a hard disk and could/should be edit-ready.

In a nutshell, Apple's implementation is not optimal. They really should be editing the native MXF files.

Quote:
Do you end up with two files, the original and the FCP captured version?
Yes.

Quote:
Is there any benefit to editing in native MXF?
Yes, it's faster (no import/conversion time needed) and you keep all the original metadata and all the file associations. And the P2 card is fast-fast-fast; it's fast enough to support editing six streams of HD straight from the card. It's two to three times faster than many/most hard disks.

Quote:
There are good reasons not to edit in native HDV.
Yes, but HDV isn't an editing codec, there are many good reasons not to edit in native HDV. DVCPRO-HD gives you a DV-style editing workflow. But whether you're editing from QT or from MXF, the data should be the same and the speed of editing should be the same. It's just that Apple makes you undergo a conversion step before you can get at the footage; Canopus and Avid don't make you wait, you can access it directly.
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Old December 31st, 2005, 04:14 PM   #78
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Kaku, can you shoot some footage in News gamma mode too! This will give a very broad latitude for grading that many are curious about.

Thanks Kaku!
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Old December 31st, 2005, 04:17 PM   #79
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Kaku, just FYI: for NEWS GAMMA, you'd need to be in VIDEO CAM mode, in either 60i or 60p. It took a little while to figure out how to get in News Gamma, so that's the steps I eventually figured out...
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Old December 31st, 2005, 04:34 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Green
Kaku, just FYI: for NEWS GAMMA, you'd need to be in VIDEO CAM mode, in either 60i or 60p. It took a little while to figure out how to get in News Gamma, so that's the steps I eventually figured out...

Barry,

news gamma can't be used in 24? And why kill news gamma at 24, Docs shot at 24 need the NG setting. If not then what is the best way to get the image flat with a wide latitude on the 200. So far the HVX200 is contrasty with current settings that I have seen...
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Old December 31st, 2005, 05:25 PM   #81
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On the pre-release unit I'm using, I could only get news gamma in the "reality" settings: 60p or 60i. Don't know if it'll be that way in the final version, but that's the way it is in this 5-week-old pre-release model.

For wide latitude you'd use Cine_Like_D, and make sure the master pedestal's not too low.

Quote:
So far the HVX200 is contrasty with current settings that I have seen...
It can look like anything you want it to look like. It's got latitude at least equal to the DVX, if not wider, and substantially wider than the competition. So you just have to pick the settings you want and go with them. Cine-Like-D is optimized for dynamic range, but that's not the default gamma setting so people probably aren't using that one in the sample footage you're seeing. Cine-Like-V is a snappy, contrasty gamma setting optimized for sharp contrast, and I think that's what the F5 preset defaults to, but not the F1 preset, and I think a lot of what we're seeing has probably been shot on the F1 preset.
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Old December 31st, 2005, 06:00 PM   #82
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Barry,

Does the HVX have more menu image adjustments than the DVX?

Any idea when we can see a PDF of the manual from Panasonic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Green
On the pre-release unit I'm using, I could only get news gamma in the "reality" settings: 60p or 60i. Don't know if it'll be that way in the final version, but that's the way it is in this 5-week-old pre-release model.

For wide latitude you'd use Cine_Like_D, and make sure the master pedestal's not too low.


It can look like anything you want it to look like. It's got latitude at least equal to the DVX, if not wider, and substantially wider than the competition. So you just have to pick the settings you want and go with them. Cine-Like-D is optimized for dynamic range, but that's not the default gamma setting so people probably aren't using that one in the sample footage you're seeing. Cine-Like-V is a snappy, contrasty gamma setting optimized for sharp contrast, and I think that's what the F5 preset defaults to, but not the F1 preset, and I think a lot of what we're seeing has probably been shot on the F1 preset.
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Old December 31st, 2005, 08:29 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pappas
Kaku, can you shoot some footage in News gamma mode too! This will give a very broad latitude for grading that many are curious about.

Thanks Kaku!
I'm thinking of going to Meiji shrine briefly and shoot in News gamma mode I guess. There are going to be more than ten thousands of people trying to get in there, so it should be a some scene. Can't spend much time so I would just do the News style only.

And thanks Barry for the information. In the production model is the same, I could not select News gamma in 24p mode. Do you want me to lower the sharpness, too?
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Old December 31st, 2005, 09:14 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaku Ito
Do you want me to lower the sharpness, too?
I think you'd probably prefer the look of your footage with a somewhat lowered detail level; I've been experimenting with the prerelease and I think -5 looks pretty good, but I can't say for the release version because I don't have one yet.

One thing that I've noticed is that having the sharpness up too high makes the footage look noisy, because the high detail level actually sharpens the edges of the noise in the video signal. Pushing the sharpening down some really shows just how clean and low-noise the camera is.
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Old December 31st, 2005, 10:13 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Green
I think you'd probably prefer the look of your footage with a somewhat lowered detail level; I've been experimenting with the prerelease and I think -5 looks pretty good, but I can't say for the release version because I don't have one yet.

One thing that I've noticed is that having the sharpness up too high makes the footage look noisy, because the high detail level actually sharpens the edges of the noise in the video signal. Pushing the sharpening down some really shows just how clean and low-noise the camera is.
Barry, thank you very much for your prompt advice.

I supposed the parameter we are adjusting is "detail" rather than "shapness" and what do you suggest the V detail to be?
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Old December 31st, 2005, 10:29 PM   #86
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Kaku,

If you do lower the sharpness, shoot with it at normal setting and then the lowered setting so we can see were the camera is out of the box.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaku Ito
I'm thinking of going to Meiji shrine briefly and shoot in News gamma mode I guess. There are going to be more than ten thousands of people trying to get in there, so it should be a some scene. Can't spend much time so I would just do the News style only.

And thanks Barry for the information. In the production model is the same, I could not select News gamma in 24p mode. Do you want me to lower the sharpness, too?
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Old December 31st, 2005, 11:18 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pappas
Kaku,

If you do lower the sharpness, shoot with it at normal setting and then the lowered setting so we can see were the camera is out of the box.
Michael,

Will do.
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Old January 1st, 2006, 12:45 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob McCardle
Hi Jeff - I personally hope that apple doesn't use pentiumM chips - should be Yonah in the pb range. Then in the second half 2006 - merom, which I'm totally guessing here, will be about the time we'll see Intel optimised pro apps and a roll out of new Intel Power Macs with Conroe - Woodcrest for the xserves.

Maybe we'll see m series chips in the iBook range at MWSF.
Yeah, but if you look at the intended release dates for Intel Mac systems vs. Intel's chip roadmap, Yonah won't be ready yet. ...Unless Apple will just wait until Intel starts shipping the newer chips. I do hope that current P4 and mobile CPU lineups won't go into Mac systems. Current P4/Xeon chips suck, especially the dual-core models. Apple is stupid (IMNSHO) for not going with AMD. Intel must have made them one heck of a deal.
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Old January 1st, 2006, 01:04 PM   #89
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Can you anyone hint me where is the download video for windows pc platform to watch the video?

I am eager to watch it. ;-)

TIA

Regards
Leigh
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Old January 1st, 2006, 01:29 PM   #90
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Hi Jeff -
Intel is expected to formally unveil Yonah along with its "Viiv" media center technology during the Consumer Electronics Show CES linky which kicks-off on Jaunary 5th, just days before MWSF.

Dell, in addition are expected to "unveil" Yonah based laptops in Feb.

So I think all this will be happening sooner rather than later.
Anyways, no biggie for me - quite prepared to let this initial Mactel release slide on through UNLESS I absolutely have to jump on one. I'd rather wait for a dual core merom.

edit: aww, who am I trying to kid ... hell, I'll jump on one as soon as they are released if they are dual core yonahs. I've got an old dp 533 tower dvcam rig I really want to replace so Stevo will have have my $$$$. Then unload it when merom comes out.
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