News for Aussies.... at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
All AG-HPX and AJ-PX Series camcorders and P2 / P2HD hardware.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 2nd, 2006, 02:33 AM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
News for Aussies....

Rexel announced to its staff the week before xmas that it was closing its video systems division so some changes there as video (pro and broadcast) moves back to Panasonic Australia only a couple retained jobs around the country...

what this means who knows, but i do know the support from Rexel WAS good..

I personally beleive the HVX release has some major influence on this decision, but i honestly dont know.
Either way, we wont know how this move back to Pana will affect HVX sales, let alone support, but irrespective of that, moving back to Pana WILL at least keep prices relatively low..
It wouldnt surprise me if this move back to Pana was one way Pana could keep the HVX to a real world price considering that here in Aus, were paying at least 30% MORE for our gear than our worldwide cousins..

Either way, the HVX will have a major impact on the australian market, and Pana are preparing for it...
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2006, 03:19 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 235
Great news for us as consumers... Not so good news for Rexel (unless Rexel made the decision)

Even better news for me because I work for an authorised Panasonic repair centre (not video equipment though) and know most of the relevant admin at Panasonic!

And yes, hopefully the pricing will be better for us in Oz also....
James Darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2006, 07:27 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 101
Who knows how it will turn out. I called up John Barry's to get a price on the dvx100 and they told me to just order on the internet because it was cheaper! They told me they had no choice on the pricing which was set by panasonic australia. Panasonic australia really killed the dvx100 in this country with their pricing and lack of advertising for this camera.

I dont really have anything positive to Rexel as they took six weeks to service my camera when the focus ring broke. They told me the shipping took this long ( or rather it was my punishment for not buying the camera from them at inflated prices). If you guys know a decent place to service the dvx please let me know.

I'm praying the hvx will be priced in line with the U.S and Asia. We are part of the global market after all.
Tung Bui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2006, 07:51 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 235
As i'm a camera repair tech by trade for the past 8 years (although i'm only 25 I started my apprenticeship when I was 18) I can tell you its not uncommon for parts delays up to 8 weeks or more for cameras which are not big sellers here in Australia. It's frustrating for us the repairer as we are the one's who cop the customers grief when its beyond our control.

Remember Australia is almost non existant when it comes to many camera manufacturers. We don't have the huge population or camera usage compared to the US or Europe. Almost all our camera equipment comes from Asia, the US or Europe so expect delays (And an increase in price, remember the importer/distributor/salesperson has a mark up too!)

But i've also noticed pricing in Australia recently has gotten better (at least for some still camera equipment) I did a price comparison on a few Canon EOS SLR recently & once GST, duty & freight was added, there was very little price different, perhaps 2-5%. Not to mention an Australian warranty too.

Don't blame the camera retailer either (generally) they only make very small margins (like 2-10%) Some will even sell at their cost just to keep you shopping with them, buying other accessories or using their service department.

In regards to a decent service centre, my work is pretty good & very honest although we are not Panasonic authorised.
James Darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2006, 09:35 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
" Panasonic australia really killed the dvx100 in this country with their pricing and lack of advertising for this camera."

This i have to agree with..
the DVX when first released, was $8800, stock no mic...
I bought it from singapore for $5400 and included a 2 yrs warranty and a 400dollar mic..

almost 3 years later the camera is now almost HALF THAT PRICE.. this time last year they had a promo where they gave manfrotto tripod kits, extra batteries, cases and tapes all fo about $5500.. now prior to this promo, the camer sold ON ITS OWN for $6700 street price.. i bought it cost for $6000 i think
Pricing of the DXV was ALWAYS up shit creek..
they NEVER got it right..

the anamorhic lense for example was stupidly overpriced (2grand almost) and the funny thing is i can buy it from singapore and have it shipped in less than a week for $900

i dont blame the grey importers.. pricing has ALWAYS been bad..

Soon after, the same thing started happenin with the Canon XL2.. $8800 (8995rrp)launch price.. soon down to $6500 in less than 12 months..
Now with Canon, they were VERY selective on who stocked the camera.. we had to sell a quota of cameras a month to keep the exclusivity of sale, but canon DID NOTHING to stop the stores which were importing units from overseas and charging FULL LAUNCH PRICE...
there was no way ANYONE here in Aus could compete with this kind of business practice.. and with no support from Canon, selling legit XL2s became a futile and pointless exercise.. our units were more expensive and the funny thing was that the accessories took stupid amounts of time to be shipped to us.. ppl started buying from overseas and had their cams in less than a fortnight.. pathetic..

Moving on..
FX1 started at abotu $6500, now its about 4100... Z1 RRP $9300@launch..
now less than 7 grand.. and this in about 12 months..
I sold a DSR570.. to get 2x Z1s... bad move IMO.. but u get that.. im selling them to go a HVX.. but at this time, theres no much choice in NLE's for the average guy who had alrady bough a DVX100... were talking TRUE prosumers here...
So Pana MUST at least make the codec available to NLE manufacturers if they want the average Joe Blow to even consider this camera..
Seriously..
if Pana want to sell the camera to event videographers they have no choice BUT TO offer support..even if it means waiving the licensing fees for the codec...

If pana want their bread and butter sles, they must target teh prosumer as they did with the DVX100.. here in Aus, the broadcast market is TINY.. were talkin 5 free to air channels..
so the only real feasable market here which offers a higher turnaround for the units, is the event/wedding market..

Pana bought the camera out with this decision to use this format.. Its a good format, no doubt about that.. but if they want to sell units, they have to at least offer the codecs to be used within NLEs on the market currently being used in real wolrd scenarios

Whats my point here.. ?
well when u consider that these price trends are pretty friggin fekked up, and the HVX is RUMOURED to be about the 12k mark its going to be hard slog for Pana to flog this unit to non broadcast production houses.. (being weddings events etc) about 80% of the DVXs sold (in my books) was for event, wedding and corporate. But in the end, most of the singular unit sales were for wedding producers. Yeah ther ewere companies liek my own which bought 2 and three units, but this was the "bread and butter" sales of the unit..

noone actualy bought a DVX for specific broadcast work (unlike the PD/dsr units which we sold to the Aus Army, Navy, Salvation Army (who use a DSR570) police service, Sony electronic publishing (who incidentaly use premiere 6.5 and a canopus storm 2) so u can see where im going with this..

These guys dont have time to learn a new NLE...
Oh theyd definately LOVE the camera as it does away with tape, and the format is far FAR superior..BUT their NLEs dont support the bloody thing.. so i can guarantee u that the camera WONT SELL unless support/codec is provided quicksmart..

Either way, thats my 2 cents..

im tired
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th, 2006, 07:00 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 328
Good, it sucked Rexel having the monopoly. We need a Panasonic version of Videocraft (sony), who have farily decent prices.

Also there are 8 Free to air stations in Australia.

They may be small but theres WIN Prime and some form of TEN.

And WIN purchased approx 70 new XDCAMS last year, and i know because we got the 530p (50mbit mpegimx). So there is some market there.

BTW Rexel in Vermont serviced my single chip and they did a great job and farily cheap. Feel bad for their staff.

Cheers,
Ben Gurvich
Ben Gurvich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th, 2006, 07:10 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Gurvich
We need a Panasonic version of Videocraft (sony), who have farily decent prices.
Are they as good as Videoguys in Notting Hill? They don't have prices posted on their website so it's frustrating.

I've been considering the Z1 Production Bundle from Videoguys.

Are there any other stores in the South Eastern Melbourne area that sell this stuff?

So far these two are the only ones I've come across.

Well, them and Tasman A/V, who we deal with at my work and I don't especially like. But I spoke to Tasman a couple days ago about the change to Panasonic's distribution and they said it was a very positive thing for consumers.
John Hewat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th, 2006, 01:56 PM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NZ
Posts: 1,276
Hi Peter,

Thanks for some insight information.

How many people(cameraman) are you talking about for the event/wedding market in Australia? 1000?

TIA

Regards
Leigh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson
here in Aus, the broadcast market is TINY.. were talkin 5 free to air channels..
so the only real feasable market here which offers a higher turnaround for the units, is the event/wedding market..
Leigh Wanstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2006, 05:04 PM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
yeah about that..
most of those are Sony PD/DSR diehards... maybe half of them in fact.. the other 20 odd percent are canon fiends, and the rest are jvc and pana
Good, it sucked Rexel having the monopoly. We need a Panasonic version of Videocraft (sony), who have farily decent prices.

To respond so im makign sense here..

"Also there are 8 Free to air stations in Australia.

They may be small but theres WIN Prime and some form of TEN."
These all come under the umbrella of their parent companies. In fact, there may be "8" channels, but on any one area, youll only really see 5 active channels. The others are all offsets of their bigger brothers.
I should have been more acurate. There are 5 Major TV stations with some areas having subsidiary channels on the same frequency/channel.

"And WIN purchased approx 70 new XDCAMS last year, and i know because we got the 530p (50mbit mpegimx). So there is some market there."

((70 cameras? I wouldnt know where they would need that many cameras, i know for a fact ch10 and ch9 dont even have that many cameras.. then again, u could be refering to a national purchase.. woulda been a great sale to nail though.. 70XD's ?? Yes please.. lol
Then again, Ch10 went Cheap with Idol and purchased 3 PD170's then when the Z1 came out, they got one of those too...
Either way, the broadcast market is where the money is at... ))

BTW Rexel in Vermont serviced my single chip and they did a great job and farily cheap. Feel bad for their staff.
((I totally agree.. I never had an issue with rexel apart from time, and mostly that wasnt their fault... ))
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2006, 05:26 PM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NZ
Posts: 1,276
Hi Peter,

Thanks for reply.

Let's make my question more simple. How many profressional/broadcast cameramen/camerawomen in Australia? No need to be acurate. 1000?

TIA

Regards
Leigh
Leigh Wanstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2006, 06:00 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

The others are all offsets of their bigger brothers.
I should have been more acurate. There are 5 Major TV stations with some areas having subsidiary channels on the same frequency/channel.

")
Pete,

Infact they are all owned independatly, WIN actually owns shares in NINE and not the other way around, and they dont use any of the same gear, except shows.
Ben Gurvich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2006, 01:50 AM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 101
Thank you guys for the perspective on the local industry. Look I will buy local if it cost a couple hundred more not a couple grand. I have had good service with DVT/John Barry/Lemac and Videocraft.

I dont know if Panasonic just doesnt have the advertising might of Sony but I know a few people in film school and they mostly use Sony. AT UTS film school they bought a new batch of pd170's.But hey arent you guys a "film" school? why arent you using the dvx. Apparently they got a good deal on some wireless mics. Everytime I use the dvx people say it looks so much better than the sony. Point is Panasonic doesnt seem to push its product very hard here.

The HVX will be seen as a landmark camera in so many ways. I'll be getting mine in the second half of the year after my exams. Hopefully the dust will have settled on NLE support by then.

I will be using it for dramatic work mainly. I can see a role for it in the advertising and corporate sector to replace 16mm. Frankly I'm not sure there is much of a market in the wedding business. The photographers get paid a heap more than the video guy does and they work half as hard. Just shoot and develop. I'm not sure people will pay more for high definition, they just dont see video as art or worthy.I'm impressed by you guys who do it for a living.
Tung Bui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2006, 04:24 AM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh Wanstead
Hi Peter,

Thanks for reply.

Let's make my question more simple. How many profressional/broadcast cameramen/camerawomen in Australia? No need to be acurate. 1000?

TIA

Regards
Leigh
That a tough one...
im not an expert on these things, i know what i need to know to get me by and to educate whoever needs educating, but i just supply the goods... well not anymore, but im still in there gettin my hands dirty

thered definately be mroe than 1000 though, if ur talkin nationwide, high end hobbyists, small cheese producers, broadcasters/stations and higher end production houses... definately more...
Of those actually forking out for gear out of their own pockets, id say half.. The other half would be the broadcasters na dlarger companies who buy gear in bulk and usually end up paying near cost price simply for the continuation and potential of business..

Hey Ben, I must be wrong then mate.. i was just chatting to a buddy and we were going over the relaunch of CH31 and this subject came up (ie how many free2air chanels and lack of watchable programs.. lol) Sorry mate, i stand corrected. I was only commenting on affiliated stations, not actual ownership.

Hey Tung,
Ive jsut written between ur message

Thank you guys for the perspective on the local industry. Look I will buy local if it cost a couple hundred more not a couple grand. I have had good service with DVT/John Barry/Lemac and Videocraft.

((One thing about local services, is that they know their shiznit... unlike some stores from overseas only in it for the buck, in this game here in aus, its more a labour of love.. cash is there, but its the love of the art that usually keeps the business up and running. ))

I dont know if Panasonic just doesnt have the advertising might of Sony but I know a few people in film school and they mostly use Sony. AT UTS film school they bought a new batch of pd170's.

((hahaha well we sold a load of PD170s to UNSW for their medical courses. Thye use Sonys coz thats what theyre used to.. thats all theyre exposed to.. to be honest with you, THATS one of the main reasons people stick with what they know... (pardon the example, but its like Premiere users looking at Vegas.. they can see the benefits and appreciate the difference, but they cant fathom the thought of jumping ship coz to them, its all new... )

Pana DO have the advertising might, but before now, all of Pana Broadcast and Pro was dealt with by Rexel NOT panasonic directly....all imports repairs, service etc etc was done by rexel...
It was rexel that failed in the advertising and penetration of the product within our market.. To be honest with you, the product SOLD ITSELF...
Put it this way, for me and my first 100 ( i didnt even see any footage taken with it before i parted cash... why? Coz i knew from my other Pana cameras that it would do what i needed it to do based on reviews and real world experiences.)
Either way, this lack of exposure is probably one reason Pana took it all back to ensure that HVX has a good amount of exposure....
Either way, Pana ditched Rexel.. Also with the US rate of the camera itself, itll prolly hit the 9 to 10k mark with no p2 cards.. i could be wrong, but ive been asking around and theyre trying for an under 10k figure... thats still almsot 2 grand more than our US brothers though...Give it 12 month though and the camera will be the same price as the Z1... ))


But hey arent you guys a "film" school? why arent you using the dvx. Apparently they got a good deal on some wireless mics. Everytime I use the dvx people say it looks so much better than the sony. Point is Panasonic doesnt seem to push its product very hard here.

((U can blame Rexel for this.. however sony had their PD170s @ under 6k with a free EW1 mic kit (this was one of the biggest selling promotions ive ever seen.. we sold 3 PD170 to every 1 DVX100... only coz of price and mics.. )
At this time the Pana was $6500 flat... to some this was a no brainer and the deciding factor was $$ and nothing more... THEN (hows this) for $6500, Rexel hooked up with John Barrys and offered a DVX bundle.. this had the camera, extra battery, tapes, bag, Manfrotto tripod 503 with 055 kit i think (i cant remmebr if it included the MC100 but i dont think so)) and afew other extras... Problem was it was too little too late coz they only started offering this when the FX1 launched in October 04.. to most users this pi$$ed them off coz like me, (i bought my second dvx in august 04) i payed $6700 (holesale) and 2 months later, this happened. There were many peeved users out there... believe me.. alot were asking for these bonus' others were asking for the difference in cash.
What rexel didnt understand was that for a 2 month rollover, a thousand dollars and 2 grands worth of extras is a big deal and a ajor issue for alot of everyday producers.... but they did it and it killed alot of confidence... Those who were considering second units pretty much said no way in fear of another major procide drop and promo... ))

The HVX will be seen as a landmark camera in so many ways. I'll be getting mine in the second half of the year after my exams. Hopefully the dust will have settled on NLE support by then.
((I agree.. I also want to see how peoples work flows for longform. At the moment im still using my DVXs for event and live stuff, and using the Z1s (which are leaving me next week!! YAY) for specific HD, corporate and promo work. Theres no market for HD here at this time, unless ur delivering to DigiBeta SD, there still no real world use with regualr paying jobs like weddings etc etc.. Soon enough there will be HD options, but right no, ive got bills to pay and these are collecting dust.. ))

I will be using it for dramatic work mainly. I can see a role for it in the advertising and corporate sector to replace 16mm. Frankly I'm not sure there is much of a market in the wedding business.

((I agree.. unless something drastically happens to allow for archval of this material, then the longform jobs wil be a no go with this unit...
When u consider most producers take about 2 to 4 weeksto edit per wedding job, and film an average of 3 to 6 jobs a month, the amount of storage space required will blow out to a point of literally not being able to shoot until the preexisting jobs are complete, or until you have abotu 5TB of storage... were talking 8 to 10 hrs raw material in DVCPRoHD100 720p... At least with tape, you can sit on teh tape until your ready to edit.. whereas with P2, storage and archive until u can get to the edit will be the major factor......
Either way, if storage becomes that much of an issue, i might jump to the JVC or Canon, which i really dont want to do, but id most likely go the canon route and grab the EF adapter and go nuts with afew prime lenses... the image quality would be mind boggling to say the least... but its no tmy first choice... I know the DVX inside out, and im hoping tha tit wont take more than a day to learn the ins and outs of the HVX... thats if i go that way.. ))

The photographers get paid a heap more than the video guy does and they work half as hard.
((Yup...))

Just shoot and develop. I'm not sure people will pay more for high definition, they just dont see video as art or worthy.
((Which is why we need to change our marketing strategies... but thats another thread altogether mate.. lol However you ar eright.. the consumer WONT see the difference until they see BOTH formats side by side, i actaully building a studio to do exactly that.. im GOING to charge more for HD... Ill explain to the client WHY, then the choice is theirs... Put it this way, thers no way in hell im forking out 15k for a camera for it not to pay itself off within 6 months... Id rather hire it, claim it as a tax write off and go my own way from there.. but yer.. thers really no demand for HD,let alone selling it at a premium rate as an added value product

On top of that, a precedent is already being set by newbies and knobjockeys charging peanuts for events to be shot in HDV (with A1s and FX1s... ) This is killing the market before it even grows. Theyre charging DV prices simply to score the job, but theyre shooting themselves in the foot here, coz when they want to start charging the big bux, people wont go for it coz theyve already seen how "cheap" it can be.. or that "joes wedding videos" is charging less coz he needs to compete...
Its a catch 22...

So with that, as a business owner, one must find ways to differentiate themselves and their product. These days THAT is the only way to survive in this business in australia... ))
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2006, 07:09 AM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,570
I work for a hire company in Sydney.
Thing is for any hire company getting kit repaired reliably is the deal breaker and so far Sony's service from their pro division is what keeps us with Sony. We and our clients have been badly burnt by JVC and I doubt we'll ever touch their products again. Rexel at least could fix something so it kept working. Canon were only slightly better than JVC in the past but then again the XL1 had so many inherent problems it was hard to know if it was broken or that was just how it was. That's also a big issue when you're in the hire business.

A large percentage of clients simply expect to pull the camera out of the box, put tape in and shoot half decent pictures. If you're the type who knows enough to tweak a zillion settings you're more likely to buy than hire. That's what's made the PD150 and Z1 such a popular camera with our clients.

Problem for the HVX is going to be firstly the amount of ancillary kit and secondly so far there's not a lot of NLE support for it. You wouldn't believe the number of people shooting HDV and THEN realising they had no way to edit the footage, I've even fielded a frantic call from a DOP who shot a whole production on a HD100 at 25p and then found no one knew how to handle the footage, so it isn't just the weekend shooters with this problem. The Varicam seems to trip up a few local productions as well.
Bob Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2006, 07:55 PM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
Hey Bob,

"We and our clients have been badly burnt by JVC and I doubt we'll ever touch their products again. "
Well JVC here in aus (from the last time i delat with them) were distributed by Hagemeyer (SP... its been while.. ) I cant honestly say who does the service, but we always dealt with Haggis (as i used to call them) directly. So i wouldnt know who to blame in that regard...

As for canon, well theyre a tough nut.. theyre mentaility is that were too god and if anythings broken its your fault not ours.. .

With regard to the formats, there are many Avid users who are already editing the format shot on varicam, but at the end of the day, it all comes to down to exposure and education.

Here in aus, thers not much of it...
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:14 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network