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Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
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Old January 19th, 2006, 04:30 PM   #31
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I was told the 16th also but was told that it didn't happen.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 08:20 PM   #32
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Spoken like the character, Dory from "Finding Nemo":

"Just keep waiting, just keep waiting...."
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Old January 20th, 2006, 04:52 PM   #33
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(previous rant deleted - I don't need to use the forum to vent frustrations.)

Last edited by Robert Lane; January 20th, 2006 at 05:25 PM.
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Old January 20th, 2006, 05:06 PM   #34
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Calm, cool, collected response (;-) to previous deleted rant deleted.

Last edited by Barry Werger; January 20th, 2006 at 05:46 PM.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 09:09 AM   #35
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And the carrott is still hanging out there...

Without naming names to protect the innocent, an email from Panasonic says that, "more cameras were shipped yesterday (Jan 20th) but don't know where...", [or how many].

So the guessing game on arrival continues.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 12:26 PM   #36
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I was told they are starting to ship more but wouldn't expect to see them in vendors hands until end of January-early Feb. Which would be okay if we are talking hundreds of cameras. The fear I think we all have is another shipment of 1 or 2. Here's hoping that is not the case.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 12:43 PM   #37
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(previous rant deleted - I don't need to use the forum to vent frustrations.)
Saves me the trouble. Many thanks, greatly appreciated.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 02:20 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik
I was told they are starting to ship more but wouldn't expect to see them in vendors hands until end of January-early Feb. Which would be okay if we are talking hundreds of cameras. The fear I think we all have is another shipment of 1 or 2. Here's hoping that is not the case.
What I don't understand is, why don't the people who know what the answer is to this question answer it? What's the harm in telling us exactly how many are coming and when? If we knew, we'd not only stop guessing but we'd stop buggnig the people who supposedly know for more info.

I'm getting weary of the tidbits of info coming from Panasonic rather than straight-forward information.

Quoting a vendor whose company is designing accesories for the HVX, said yesterday, "I hope Panasonic doesn't shoot themselves in the foot with how they're handling the HVX release. Too many people are calling us trying to find out information about when it's coming out; all I can tell them is we're as much in the dark as they are. It's put [our company] in a bit of an awkward situation". (name & company withheld to protect the person who said it)
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Old January 21st, 2006, 02:41 PM   #39
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What I don't understand is, why don't the people who know what the answer is to this question answer it? What's the harm in telling us exactly how many are coming and when? If we knew, we'd not only stop guessing but we'd stop buggnig the people who supposedly know for more info. I'm getting weary of the tidbits of info coming from Panasonic rather than straight-forward information.
I agree and would like to say that it's making me leery enough where I can't say for sure it will be my next camera. I'm not trying to be negative or anything like that, just saying how I feel. In my opinion the HVX has some great advantages over other camera's with the biggest one being the superior, rich vibrant images it records and the second biggest advantage being what seems to be the best workflow possible with a Mac. But honestly, the delays and lack of information make me worry that something may be wrong with it. I really hope I'm wrong. I just can't understand why a company with vast resources like Panasonic can't make the information available. I mean if they have the capability to put up a <fake>BLOG, why can't they put the information everyone wants to know on it, information like - when I can buy one?

Here's a link to the BLOG: http://toshpit.blogs.com/
Here's the "up to date" info it contains in the first paragraph:
It's the Holidays!
Hey everyone, thanks for stopping by, asking, sharing and overall supporting my blog. I'm going to take a much needed time off for the holidays and will be back in January. Stay tuned for raw files to download, clips to play with and more info as the camera is out in the field being used by several people. Happy Ones.

I hope my views are not seen as rash or that any way this is considered a "rant." I understand that I have other options as a consumer and I may have to pursue those, it's just ashame that something so close can be so far away... maybe, afterall no one seems to know?????
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Old January 21st, 2006, 03:00 PM   #40
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I hear you Derek. I have thought of jumping ship too but the only other camera that I am even remotely interested in is the XLH1 and that is just out of my price range. I have to admit at times I have thought of just getting an FX1 (yuck....60i) and pocketing a cool $3k and then not have to worry about P2 and windows DVCPRO-HD issues and all. I would have to use software to emulate the 24P look for certain narrative work but that seems almost easy compared to the sludge of workarounds for DVCPRO-HD on a PC right now! But at the end of the day, despite what feels like a poor marketing strategy by Panasonic, it is still the best solution for my needs.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 03:14 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Barry Werger
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OK, looks like I'll have to resurrect some of it...

You're all assuming that there is someone who knows the whens and how manys. I'm as much in the dark as you, but having been on the other end of product development, and having followed the development of other consumer products, I am certain that noone at Panasonic knows the answers. They are grappling with some issue, and know only that "it'll be ready when it's ready". They don't want to release a camera with a problem, and don't want to release an "improved version" very soon after initial deployment. So they're probably making a few final tweaks that will mean a better product. Whether it's fixing a problem or improving capability we don't know. Whatever it is, they're being conscientious and protecting both themselves and buyers from future frustration. And I'm sure they want to be able to name a date and ship on that date... but product development doesn't usually work that way, especially on the cutting edge.

Come on, guys... you want them to thoroughly test your $6,000 item before they send it to you, right? You want them to fix it now rather than recall it later? You want the one with the better performance, not the one that is replaced by an improved model, right? Sure, it would be nice to know more about what's going on... but, really, there's no way this is deliberate, or that people know when it will ship but aren't saying. Give 'em some peace to work things out...
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Old January 21st, 2006, 04:04 PM   #42
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OK, looks like I'll have to resurrect some of it...

You're all assuming that there is someone who knows the whens and how manys. I'm as much in the dark as you, but having been on the other end of product development, and having followed the development of other consumer products, I am certain that noone at Panasonic knows the answers. They are grappling with some issue, and know only that "it'll be ready when it's ready". They don't want to release a camera with a problem, and don't want to release an "improved version" very soon after initial deployment. So they're probably making a few final tweaks that will mean a better product. Whether it's fixing a problem or improving capability we don't know. Whatever it is, they're being conscientious and protecting both themselves and buyers from future frustration. And I'm sure they want to be able to name a date and ship on that date... but product development doesn't usually work that way, especially on the cutting edge.

Come on, guys... you want them to thoroughly test your $6,000 item before they send it to you, right? You want them to fix it now rather than recall it later? You want the one with the better performance, not the one that is replaced by an improved model, right? Sure, it would be nice to know more about what's going on... but, really, there's no way this is deliberate, or that people know when it will ship but aren't saying. Give 'em some peace to work things out...
Seeing as some people have already received their cameras in early January (very few) I'd say that the camera is done. If they are fixing some new issues then just come out and say so and make us all happy. I think we'd rather wait and get a fully tested camera as long as we know why we are waiting. Currently Panasonic's statement is that they are shipping. Just nobody is getting any and the retailers are getting "no info" from the Panasonic reps.....at least the few dealers I deal with are saying this.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 10:59 PM   #43
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Derek my boy, you hit the proverbial nail on the head.

The marketing company Panasonic hired has done their job very well; they've gotten us interested and excited for the HVX. Now that the Panny website says, "now shipping" and none of us have one yet and no info is coming forth as to why, we've become like expectant mothers - we're anxious for the newborn to arrive but the pains of this extended labor is making us, well...grouchy!

True Barry, nobody wants to have a defective product on their hands, but let me give you another real world example of a manufacturer that DID have issues and they came forth and admitted it publicly:

When Canon released their new 1Ds MkII body, it immediately came under fire for having an incompatibility with certain Lexar CF cards, and there were a few other bugs that cropped up initially which made the camera unreliable. In some cases, entire banks of images would be lost to this buggy behavior. Within two weeks of the MkII's release, both Canon and Lexar made a joint public announcement of the "known issues" and that they were working on them.

At first it looked like Canon had released a lemon on the market and the initial lashing from customers was pretty severe. But, Canon saved face - and their customers confidence - by admitting the problem and solving it quickly with a firmware update.

So here we have Panasonic who *seems* to have some issues with the release of the HVX but instead of honest, straightforward communication adressing this issue to their waiting customer base, they're being purposely vague and silent.

If Canon and it's new model can survive their little "new model glitch" (and I'm an owner of that new MkII body) so can Panasonic - just let's be forthcoming with some info already.

At this point Panasonic would gain customer confidence and loyalty by being open; they stand to lose our confidence every day they remain silent.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 12:14 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik
I hear you Derek. I have thought of jumping ship too but the only other camera that I am even remotely interested in is the XLH1 and that is just out of my price range. I have to admit at times I have thought of just getting an FX1 (yuck....60i) and pocketing a cool $3k and then not have to worry about P2 and windows DVCPRO-HD issues and all. I would have to use software to emulate the 24P look for certain narrative work but that seems almost easy compared to the sludge of workarounds for DVCPRO-HD on a PC right now! But at the end of the day, despite what feels like a poor marketing strategy by Panasonic, it is still the best solution for my needs.
Except,
if you wait until what will probably be March, you might as well see what happens at Nab, by then, a few more months with the Fx1 is in order...
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 01:25 AM   #45
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If Canon and it's new model can survive their little "new model glitch" (and I'm an owner of that new MkII body) so can Panasonic - just let's be forthcoming with some info already.

At this point Panasonic would gain customer confidence and loyalty by being open; they stand to lose our confidence every day they remain silent.
I dunno. I imagine Canon would have preferred (in hindsight) to just have waited and tested that particular issue. Not sure - but it probably would have saved them money and embarrasment. Further, if there are issues that are not firmware-fixable, then the cost savings of holding back would be tremendous. They can easily replace the three cameras ;-) they've shipped already; but if there were hundreds or thousands.. it would be a nightmare.

I'm not saying Panasonic couldn't be handling this better; I do think they could. I'm just saying that I don't think they're holding back answers; I think they're trying to figure out the answers. So for all our sakes, it'll be better for us to be supportive rather than demanding. And if you need an answer now, or will have to buy another product... do what you have to do.

As for me... sending out good wishes and thanks for all the hard work to the Panasonic engineers!

-Barry
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