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Old January 8th, 2006, 09:29 AM   #1
Rextilleon
 
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Why the HVX200 Now?

I am always interested when a new camera comes on the market and therefore I am interested in this radically new way of acquisition. I do, however, have a question that I might have posed before.

Why would anyone buy a camera sight unseen---particularly a camera that requires an investment of over 5000 dollars? Wouldn't it make more sense to allow the camera to come to the marketplace, wait for professional evaluations by people who have no dog in the hunt, and then decide whether or not it makes sense to purchase it? I just don't understand it and would love to know why people did buy this camera (or any camera) without a history?

Last edited by David Mintzer; January 8th, 2006 at 12:40 PM.
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Old January 8th, 2006, 09:54 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mintzer
I am always interested when a new camera comes on the market and therefore I am interested in this radically new way of acquisition. I do, however, have a question that I might have posed before.

Why would anyone buy a camera sight unseen---particularly a camera that requires an investment of over 5000 dollars? Wouldn't it make more sense to allow the camera to come to the marketplace, wait for professional evaluations by people who have no dog in the hunt, and then decide whether or not it makes sense to purchase it? I just don't understand it and would love to know why people did by this camera (or any camera) without a history?
Perhaps they saw the tech specs... the video footage... and liked it? We are evaluating it right now... isn't the internet beautiful?
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Old January 8th, 2006, 10:30 AM   #3
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I think many people were:

1. Sure of panasonic's reputation they build with the DVX.
2. Were very impressed with the specs (which were very impressive when they released them at that time)
3. Had some jobs coming that they really want to shoot with this camera.

That said, it wouldn't be something I would do, but I on the other hand am (at this moment) not professionally busy with it.
So for people who are making money with it, it could be different.
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Old January 8th, 2006, 01:06 PM   #4
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Broadcasters never buy cameras before their engineering and production staff tests them thoroughly. It is crazy that some people here prepay cameras before they were released and properly tested.
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Old January 8th, 2006, 01:40 PM   #5
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I would have preordered if I had the money. Let not forget it a 5k$ HD camera, it not a 80k$ camera. Panasonic seem to have made lovers in the DVX100 series, now panasonic seem to understand the dvx100 love and bring that into the HVX200. Now there is others HD camera under the 10k$ mark. The one I was sold to before was the Canon XL H1, but when you look at it, there is no real special feature that demark the camera, except changable lens, SDI output, and connector for color/timecode sync.

Now I think that the XL H1 might be what the media will get, it cheap solution to upgrade from the old broadcast equippement. But the P2 might also be something that interest the media because of it speed.

Now like someone said at DVXuser forum, the HVX100 isnt a prosumer camera. It is classed as a professional Panasonic Camera. It price range might put it into the prosumer, but doesn't seem to have been made that way. Now we ofcourse can't except a FULL 1920x1080 progressive resolution image, with 0 noise, and all the others bad thing people are saying so far. It is not a 80k+$ camera, and even those camera have noise and arnt full 1920x1080 ccd resolution. Also, people been saying about available shootage, that it not that great. You have to understand that if I made shootage with the HVX200 it wouldn't look good, because I am not good at filming (yet ;) but put that into someone who knows how to setup a scene and handle a camera, and you get some very nice footage.

As a home user who hate general public A/V equippement, HVX200 is a dream come true, it allow within 1 camera, access to play at low cost with some highend camera feature.

With in the past 3 year, I had bought 3 Digital Camera, and 2 Video Camera. Spend over 10k$ on them. I had at first Canon PowerShot G1, Canon PowerShot G3 and I never was satisfied. my last digital camera is a Canon 20D and Im loving it, I have no reason to change it for years to come now since it does the job well (But new lens are one thing I will get). Video I had 2 Sony Digital8 camera so far, at 1200$ price range, and it suck, i mean it not that bad, but anything that doesn't have 3CCD isnt worth it. And even the new home 3CCD camera arnt attractive.

I understand also alot of people and camera maker who build on the HDV format. It allow a compression that any home computer can handle in term of access speed. the DVCPRO HD isn't for everyone, it for professional, it require alot of hd space, computer power, and expensive software (that I am still in search for one that work well with Kaku MXF footage(AND NO, I WILL NOT GET A MAC!!!)).

I do not understand why the Canon XL H1 used that HDV format thought, or at less offer a higher video quality Firewire to portable HD ratter than putting expensive Tape system. having external SDI-HD recording is expensive.

But ofcourse expensive is relative depending who you are. I was in search of a good Tri-pod for my future hvx200 camera, and I was told to get a Sachtler DV 6. Now I said in my mind fine, it what I'll get, but WAIT a minute, it 1700$ TRIPOD. Now some might said it cheap, other like me will say Your crazy. But this the price you pay when you get to those quality.

Btw Im not native english speaking, so good luck reading this... but I guess it too late ;)
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Old January 8th, 2006, 02:48 PM   #6
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i've been following this camera since it's announcement... on paper it has everything i need (and then some). having downloaded several DVCPRO-HD files, what i have seen so far looks good - good enough for me, as i have been shooting with a Canon GL-1 since 2001. the P2 is pricey, but those prices will come down soon enough (i hope). the ease of the workflow, the variable frame rates, 720p/1080p HD, and the one feature i think is overlooked - 4:2:2 DV-50, made this the one for me.

i pre-paid (after i saw the raw files) for tax purposes - needed a big purchase for 2005. i have always liked the look of the DVX, so this was an easy decision for me.


i just wish it would get here sooner... like tomorrow!
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Old January 8th, 2006, 02:52 PM   #7
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David. Great question and I appreciate you asking it in a neutral way. I had actually read another post by you that said something along the same lines, but since it was more of a statement and not a question I didn’t really want to respond. I'll post that comment below along with my answers. For the question above, here's why "the HVX200 now" -

Basically, for me it all boils down to “What else could I get for the same amount of money (right now)?” Up until last week, I had an XL2 (which I just sold and am shipping out tomorrow). I was happy with it and when I purchased it back in June, I did my homework and figured out the features most important to me. After I figured out what I needed in a video camera I had two options - the XL2 or the DVX. I chose the XL2 for several reasons I had at that time, but the big two reasons were interchangeable lenses and true 16:9.

I did the shooting that I needed to do and tweaked the camera to what I thought the best settings were and was very happy with my XL2 purchase decision. Which brings me to today. I now know that interchangeable lenses are not important to me and the new HVX has true 16:9. So in the worst case scenario, I’ll have a camera that can shoot just as good as the XL2 did.

Best case scenario, I have a camera that offers at least a dozen of advantages over the XL2 (for my particular needs). I will be happy to list the advantages, but you can just click here to see the big reasons I chose the HVX over other HD/HDV options. Keep in mind this post is over a month old so there are now even more advantages that I did not cover back on 12/02/05. My reasons are in post #4:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...d%2Fhdv+option

Seeing, editing, compressing and exporting to the web Kaku’s footage was the final “factor” that pushed me from “investigating” the HVX to committing to buy it. It was the seamless workflow that I had been looking for - the seamless workflow, that in my experience & research (... and in my opinion) JVC, Sony and Canon could not, and as of today, still can't provide. At least not for the year 2006 with products that I know about today.

Now for your other post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mintzer
Why would any professional preorder any camera without throughly testing it in real world shooting situations. It boggles the mind that someone is loose enough with their cash that they can slap down either a big deposit or pay in full (a la B&H) for something they haven't tried.
Answered above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mintzer
It boggles the mind that someone is loose enough with their cash that they can slap down either a big deposit or pay in full (a la B&H) for something they haven't tried. I have to assume that the people who do it are either loaded with money...
Not loaded with money and I had to sell my XL2 to afford the HVX. But I do have a pretty good idea of my overall uses for a camcorder and try to focus on those needs to make sure I pay attention to the right specifications and don’t get deterred by the extreme intricacies that some folks seem to concentrate on. Reading actual user experiences in this forum are a HUGE help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mintzer
... or have a specific shoot in mind. The specific shoot in mind excuse doesn't make sense because how does one know what a camera will do when they haven't shot with it?
I have enough invested in lighting and other equipment to ensure I’ll get the results I want. I got the results I wanted from the XL2 and feel confident based on the footage I’ve seen that I will get the results I want from the HVX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mintzer
For that matter, they don't even know when they are going to get delivery.
As for delivery, I’m in a position right now where I don’t have to know an exact delivery date, although sooner would be better than later!

I'm also encouraged by others who've posted on this thread within DVinfo.Net:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57531

Does that mean "I'd drive off a cliff if all the other kids were doing it?"
Not really. I made my decision before I saw others doing so. And looking at the list, these are kids who've done their homework. It's kind of like when you were in science class and knew you had the right answer, but you felt a lot better if 14 others had the same answer. Does it mean you are guaranteed 100% to be right? No, but your odds are pretty good.

That’s my opinion, today, right now, this hour. Thanks for asking David.
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Old January 8th, 2006, 04:26 PM   #8
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i put my money on the table

like danny, the end of the year tax consideration was my biggests motivation to pre-order thru B&H at this time.

2005 was a good year.

i had the money.

i previously sold my pd150 for 10% less than purchased after 2.5 yrs of use.

i previously sold my dvx100a for 7% less than purchased after 1.25 yrs of use.

i figured i'm so far down the B&H list that by the time i get the camera (feb? march?) many of the bugs will be worked out.

AND...

if i really don't like the hvx200...

i can return it to B&H.

that all said, i went to a panasonic hands-on demo and played w/the camera (along w/others) for about 45min. there was enough there in terms of ergonomics and design that i was duly impressed. as for the image? well the hd side of the camera seems to be tested as we speak by the 1st wave of hvx200 users. on the sd side of the camera, i've long been a fan of the dvx100a and i'm hoping the hvx200 will provide a cost efficient pathway to dvcpro50, i format i like very much.

now, if u had the money (and plenty of years i haven't) then considering the above...

...why would u put the $6k on the table?

your mileage may vary

be well

rob katz
harvest films
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Old January 8th, 2006, 07:28 PM   #9
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Just make sure you're real clear on your store's return policy.

Check it out, worse comes to worse, return it.
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Old January 8th, 2006, 08:16 PM   #10
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Basically good responses--although I'm still a bit befuddled. Anyhow, I have not passed judgement on the camera, and I am depending on you guys to be the guinea pigs. I hope you get yours soon and make many posts on what the camera can and cannot do. I will be in the market for a new camera come March and by then I hope to learn much about the HVX.
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Old January 8th, 2006, 08:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mintzer
Basically good responses--although I'm still a bit befuddled.
It's all about research, instinct, brand reputation, faith, and taking a calculated risk. It's also about making a commitment and selling off gear before it depreciates any further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mintzer
Anyhow, I have not passed judgement on the camera, and I am depending on you guys to be the guinea pigs. I hope you get yours soon and make many posts on what the camera can and cannot do. I will be in the market for a new camera come March and buy then I hope to learn much about the HVX.
Safe and wise choice.
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Old January 8th, 2006, 08:37 PM   #12
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I like Steevs response the most------Well the story is yet to be told---I await the story from all the fine members of this forum.
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