Is quick time pro with a G4 the best and cheapest way to capture from the HVX? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

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Old January 18th, 2006, 09:57 PM   #16
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OHMYGOD, YOU'RE NOT SHOOTING IN A NUCLEAR FACILITY ARE YOU????

BTW, the thing with Quicktime Pro is that it will read DVCProHD files, and it will allow you to export in any Quicktime codec you have, including DVCProHD. It just won't allow you to live capture from firewire.
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Old January 18th, 2006, 10:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Anderson
OHMYGOD, YOU'RE NOT SHOOTING IN A NUCLEAR FACILITY ARE YOU????

BTW, the thing with Quicktime Pro is that it will read DVCProHD files, and it will allow you to export in any Quicktime codec you have, including DVCProHD. It just won't allow you to live capture from firewire.
Well that sucks. I guess its a Hobson's choice for me if there is no good option here.

David

Last edited by David M. Payne; January 19th, 2006 at 12:35 AM.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 12:32 AM   #18
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Well, there is a sort-of solution, if I understand software distribution practices correctly:

Install FCP on a hard drive, and plug that drive into whatever machine you happen to be using at any given moment.

That way, FCP only "exists" on one machine at a time.

Now, technically, you may continuously install the software on new machines as long as you delete it on the other machines. Many contracts (or interpretations) loosen this to mean "you can install on more than one machine, as long as you never RUN it on more than one machine at a time", since, technically, you could achieve the same effect by deinstalling and reinstalling.

This might work for you if you don't plan to use the laptops simultaneously.

-Barry
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Old January 19th, 2006, 12:40 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Barry Werger
Well, there is a sort-of solution, if I understand software distribution practices correctly:

Install FCP on a hard drive, and plug that drive into whatever machine you happen to be using at any given moment.

That way, FCP only "exists" on one machine at a time.

Now, technically, you may continuously install the software on new machines as long as you delete it on the other machines. Many contracts (or interpretations) loosen this to mean "you can install on more than one machine, as long as you never RUN it on more than one machine at a time", since, technically, you could achieve the same effect by deinstalling and reinstalling.

This might work for you if you don't plan to use the laptops simultaneously.

-Barry
I'll have a two camera set up running quite a bit and the feed will be to the two laptops so that dosn't look like a good solution. I'll just have to see if Apple does something positive in this matter, or some other software solution from a third party presents itself. There is always a work-around for these types of problems. And I have some time too.

David
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Old January 19th, 2006, 11:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Scott Schuster
I thought you can put FCP on as many machines as you want as long as only one machine is being used at that time and if you are using the machines at the same time problems would only occur if they were connected to a common server.
that's not what the license says.

it may be installed only on one machine at one time.

it doesn't say you can install multiple times on multiple machines, but use it only on one machine at a time.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 12:34 PM   #21
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Only FCP will work with DVCPRO HD and 24p to capture from the camera according to the chart on the Apple web site.

David

Last edited by David M. Payne; January 19th, 2006 at 04:56 PM.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 03:08 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by David Saraceno
that's not what the license says.

it may be installed only on one machine at one time.

it doesn't say you can install multiple times on multiple machines, but use it only on one machine at a time.
Duh. Try reading through the thread next time. I posted the license.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 11:27 AM   #23
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cheap solution - buy another copy off ebay- jaywalking is illegal but you should still look both ways. A ticket is nothing compared to getting wacked by 3 tons of steel.Kurth
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 02:07 PM   #24
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Careful not to spend a dollar to save a dime.

I did a pretty large scale 24P DV shoot (DVX100) a while back and since it made me nervous to put a ton of labor costs onto a $6 cassette I bought a portable DV deck to connect via firewire so I would have a back-up of all the shots. Fortunately, I didn't need the back-ups, but I did learn just how un-"production-friendly" a firewire connection really is - it would frequently fall out or come loose (despite the gaffers tape). The time I lost was the small price I was going to have to pay to make sure I had a shot to edit with -- adding a day because a tape failed was not in the budget. My point is this: trying to tether two laptops to your cameras, while a seemingly cost-effective solution, is likely to cost you a lot of time, on top of what you might spend trying to make it work. If you can figure out a way to swing P2 cards you'll have greater flexibility/mobility with your cameras -- cameras that will start recording with the push of a button, as opposed to making sure FCP is capturing on two separate laptops. I've seen productions where someone comes up with a "half-price" solution, only to have it work half of the time and they wind up spending more than if they had gone with a more traditional approach. Making a movie is hard enough -- a rigged recording solution, while feasible may prove disastrous.

And for something totally different -- I thought I heard that FireStore has a solution for the HVX, of course this solution is not inexpensive, but it may be more cost-effective than P2 cards.

Best of luck -- and thanks for having the integrity not to abuse FCP's software license.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 09:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hames
I did a pretty large scale 24P DV shoot (DVX100) a while back and since it made me nervous to put a ton of labor costs onto a $6 cassette I bought a portable DV deck to connect via firewire so I would have a back-up of all the shots. Fortunately, I didn't need the back-ups, but I did learn just how un-"production-friendly" a firewire connection really is - it would frequently fall out or come loose (despite the gaffers tape). The time I lost was the small price I was going to have to pay to make sure I had a shot to edit with -- adding a day because a tape failed was not in the budget. My point is this: trying to tether two laptops to your cameras, while a seemingly cost-effective solution, is likely to cost you a lot of time, on top of what you might spend trying to make it work. If you can figure out a way to swing P2 cards you'll have greater flexibility/mobility with your cameras -- cameras that will start recording with the push of a button, as opposed to making sure FCP is capturing on two separate laptops. I've seen productions where someone comes up with a "half-price" solution, only to have it work half of the time and they wind up spending more than if they had gone with a more traditional approach. Making a movie is hard enough -- a rigged recording solution, while feasible may prove disastrous.

And for something totally different -- I thought I heard that FireStore has a solution for the HVX, of course this solution is not inexpensive, but it may be more cost-effective than P2 cards.



Best of luck -- and thanks for having the integrity not to abuse FCP's software license.
The FireStore and Cineporter are as expensive as the laptops and not as functional, so that doesn’t make much sense to me, as most of this shoot will be from tripods and good quality well secured FireWire can handle 25 feet of length with no drop off of quality according to what I've read about the subject. So I don't really see that attaching the laptops to the cameras should be much of a problem. I'll also be using the laptops as field monitors, so if the firewire falls out I'll know it right away and I can take steps to fix the problem in a very timely fashion. I will have 2 P2 4 gig cards as well for truly mobile shots, where firewire isn't an issue.

As for not abusing the FCP software license, after over $9,500.00 worth of Apples (A G5 Quad and 2 G4's) and the FCP software as well as some other software and computer upgrades, I'm pretty sure Apple is isn't feeling too abused by me. As I said there are always 3rd party solutions and workarounds that are fair to all parties involved, and I have some time anyway. Who knows perhaps apple will upgrade "QuickTime Pro" to a really "Pro" app. That way they can't be accused of ripping people off by offering a "Pro" product that isn't up to "Pro" standards, right? After all Apple can easily incorporate the ability to capture DVCPRO HD from a camera into QuickTime Pro, they already know the codec for it.

(Memo to Steve Jobs: Hey Steve, do the right thing and help us small time Indie flick guys out and really up grade QT Pro so it will capture DVCPRO HD. After all it will funnel all that film shot in QT Pro into your computers and software, and its win-win baby, and you win both times to our one! ;) Your new pal, David M Payne.)

David ;)

Last edited by David M. Payne; January 23rd, 2006 at 08:22 PM.
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Old January 23rd, 2006, 11:29 AM   #26
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QT has "Device Native" option

Hi David,

I was just sharing my experience with 4-pin firewire in a production environment to say that it's rather touchy. Unfortunately, someone hasn't devised a type of firewire connector that is as robust as BNC or XLR.

As for QuickTime Pro, I did notice under the recording preferences you can choose "Device Native" under the quality option -- this may only go as far as the DV codec, I didn't find a definitive answer elsewhere online in my brief search.

I know it goes without saying, but thoroughly test your workflow before you sink too much money in any one direction. Also realize that if it takes an extra 5 minutes every time you need to relocate the camera(s) to accommodate moving your laptop stations, you're easily loosing an hour or more a day, after 10 days of shooting, you've lost more than a day. You're probably not in a situation where you have to pay your crew over-time, but that kind of productivity loss will affect morale.

-David
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Old January 23rd, 2006, 11:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hames
Hi David,

I was just sharing my experience with 4-pin firewire in a production environment to say that it's rather touchy. Unfortunately, someone hasn't devised a type of firewire connector that is as robust as BNC or XLR.

As for QuickTime Pro, I did notice under the recording preferences you can choose "Device Native" under the quality option -- this may only go as far as the DV codec, I didn't find a definitive answer elsewhere online in my brief search.

I know it goes without saying, but thoroughly test your workflow before you sink too much money in any one direction. Also realize that if it takes an extra 5 minutes every time you need to relocate the camera(s) to accommodate moving your laptop stations, you're easily loosing an hour or more a day, after 10 days of shooting, you've lost more than a day. You're probably not in a situation where you have to pay your crew over-time, but that kind of productivity loss will affect morale.

-David
With pay and points and a flexible schedule I think that the cast and crew that take this film project on will be able to get behind it and do a good job. I have no inexpensive perfect choices in this venture, but I think the equipment I'll be using and the way I see making this film will work fine for a first effort. The story is original and has good potential for doing at least two things a good movie should do, tell a good tale leaving the audience entertained; and fire their imagination and perhaps give them a little something to think about too. What I find so interesting about the cameras and computer advances is the unique way that it allows one to tell their tales in HD, which is easily uprezed for film. Its also much more interesting that just writing is right now. I have other tales as good or better than this one that suitable for filming IMHO, but with "Holy War" I just want to get in some practical experience and see if I have what I think I do as far as this film is concerned. I've been a film fan since at least "Shane" and probably longer, and have taken a few film classes over the years. I know It's a crapshoot to try and break into films, and I'm comfortable with my chances. I have a good story, good equipment and enough cash to hire a crew. The story is good enough that a competent cast of unknowns could tell it well. If I can do my part and my cast and crew can do their part, I think we'll make a pretty good movie.

David
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