No P2? No Cineporter? Here's an Alternative...

Paulo Teixeira · February 4th, 2006, 01:49 PM

As long as you’re not doing over 3 to 4 streams of DVC PRO HD, you should be OK with fire-wire 400. Also I don’t think the PowerBook can handle any more than 4 streams even with fire-wire 800 although I may be wrong.
The screen resolution is only a little bit less than the previous PowerBook
There is an ExpressCard/34 slot. There should be an adapter available when the MacBook is released to use PCMCIA media, at least I would hope!
The Final Cut Pro version that is coming out next month should be compatible to both systems.

As for the S-Video output, that is a big mistake on Apple’s part and yes Apple included a single layer DVD burner only to keep the laptop thin. Apple may be thinking that people don’t need dual layer DVD burning considering that people who want to store more content on a DVD may opt to get a Blue Ray or HD DVD burner as well. It could be a strategy to get people to buy them, although I do understand how expensive they will be once they get released. Hopefully Apple releases a 17 inch model right away with the missing features.

Robert Lane · February 4th, 2006, 10:45 PM

I just replaced the 5400rpm drive that came with my PB with a 7200rpm Hitachi. It made for a noticeable performance increase. If I get any dropped frames or other problems it'll be because of operator error, not because the hardware didn't work properly.

Hans Damkoehler · February 5th, 2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Since I can't wait around to see when they become available and the Cineporter being the only true P2 device as an alternative is also not available until probably NAB, I needed a "shoot now" alternative.

Robert,

If you get a second can you clarify something for me ... how exactly do I setup FCP to record the HVX?

I have tried and want to see if this is the proper way: I set up the HVX to send 720/30 out Firewire. I "easy setup" FCP to the same setup. I turn off device control in FCP and hit capture now. No timecode this way. I get recorded material but is this the way to do it? Am I missing something?

Thanks!

- Hans

Robert Lane · February 7th, 2006, 01:05 AM

Hans,

Sounds like you're doing it right; when you select "non-contollable device" in the capture preset or when using the "log and capture" window FCP automatically puts timecode in for you since a non-controllable device isn't sending timecode usually.

A good example is when I captured footage output from a DVD player (actually it was my Playstation being used as a DVD player). I set the same settings as above, hit the "capture now" button and FCP assigned the clip it's own timecode.

And by the way, I've been doing exactly that with my HVX during testing; I'm connected only via Firewire directly to the PB using the "non-controllable device" setting for "capture now". So far, it works like a charm.

Marty Hudzik · February 7th, 2006, 03:29 AM

Is the upgrade to FCP for use on the new Powerbooks going to be a free download or will it require us to purchase a new version on cd?

Danny Dale · February 7th, 2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

I just replaced the 5400rpm drive that came with my PB with a 7200rpm Hitachi. It made for a noticeable performance increase. If I get any dropped frames or other problems it'll be because of operator error, not because the hardware didn't work properly.

robert,

did you do this yourself? if not, where did you get it done and how much did they charge? do you know if this voids the warranty (i have applecare)? i need to replace mine because it's only 4200rpm - thanks.

//danny

Robert Lane · February 7th, 2006, 09:28 AM

Marty,

Here is the webpage that talks specifically about upgrade/crossgrade options. The discs are not free but the cost is minimal:

http://www.apple.com/universal/crossgrade/

Danny,

I did the switch myself. Whether or not it voids the warranty is a bit of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation.

There is a great website: www.pbfixit.com. They have free, step-by-step printable web-guides that show you exactly how to replace/upgrade just about anything for a Powerbook and they even sell the parts.

BE CAREFUL: If you've never worked on micro-electronics or seen the inside of a laptop I don't recommend the DIY method. There are a host of small, fragile ribbon-cables that connect all the sub-components together, and doing something as *simple* as opening the main case can easily rip one out of it's snap connectors and damage the cable.

However, if you're handy with electronics and understand concepts like ESD and using an anti-static armband you can easily swap the HD - or any other interal component - yourself.

Danny Dale · February 7th, 2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

BE CAREFUL: If you've never worked on micro-electronics or seen the inside of a laptop I don't recommend the DIY method. There are a host of small, fragile ribbon-cables that connect all the sub-components together, and doing something as *simple* as opening the main case can easily rip one out of it's snap connectors and damage the cable.

However, if you're handy with electronics and understand concepts like ESD and using an anti-static armband you can easily swap the HD - or any other interal component - yourself.

i called Fry's Electronics and they siad they would do it for $45.00 - and it wouldn't void the warranty...

//danny

Jaser Stockert · February 7th, 2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

- PCMCIA FW800 Card: What's extremely important to note about the PB (and actually the same applies to a G5 as well) is that both the FW400 & 800 ports live on the same physical bus on the motherboard. Because of the nature of the FW bus, the bus speed is only as fast as the SLOWEST device. The specs on the HVX data record rate is 100mbps, which means that when connected to a FW port it will choke the entire bus down to FW100 speed! The only way to avoid this is to create a separate physical bus, which the LaCie FW800 card does. So the camera gets connected to the built-in FW400 port on the PB, and the external drive goes into the FW800 port on the PCMCIA card - voila! Two distinct FW busses.

robert, i believe this holds true ONLY if you have a firewire400 device plugged in at the same time as a firewire800 device? no?

Hans Damkoehler · February 7th, 2006, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

I just replaced the 5400rpm drive that came with my PB with a 7200rpm Hitachi. It made for a noticeable performance increase.

Robert,

I didn't think my System Drive would make much difference in this situation since I would be recording directly to an external drive. Does the OS have to access the system drive to run Final Cut during capture? Or, are you capturing to your internal drive? Am I confused as to how this affects system performance?

I appreciate you taking my continual questions!

Robert Lane · February 7th, 2006, 11:31 PM

Jaser,

If you read the original post this is exactly the situation you'll have when capturing directly to a PB with the HVX, which is why it's important to separate the FW busses from each other so that the camera, which is a FW100 device doesn't slow down the external drive to the same speed.

It's very important to note that any external drive needs to have a faster data input rate than the camera is sending out. The reason is, the PB is NOT simply transferring the raw camera data to the drive (if it were, then it would just be a very complex P2 card). Instead, FCP is "translating" the FW footage from the camera into a Quicktime file that can be used for editing. Those files are larger than the original data coming out of the camera because it's being "wrapped" with Quicktime meta-data and audio tags that the camera itself is not creating.

I have absolutely no idea what the actual translation percentage is, but a very rough example would be: For every single bit of data coming that comes out of the camera, FCP is adding another 2-4 bits on top of that to create the Quicktime file.

If the drive was exactly the same speed as the data coming into the PB, the drive would never be able to catch up and you'd end up with either nothing but dropped frames or a completely corrupted data stream.

It's a long-winded answer, but maybe now it's more apparent why having a fast external drive is so important to HD capture.

Robert Lane · February 7th, 2006, 11:38 PM

Hans,

Absolutely, the main drive does access the OS and FCP continually during the capture process. It doesn't do it nearly as much as when the application first loads up into RAM, but it is still being accessed nonetheless.

As mentioned above in my reply to Jaser, FCP has to translate the raw capture files into usable Quicktime files. The Quicktime engine is a native part of OSX not FCP. In fact, FCP calls out to the Quicktime engine IN the OS, not the other way around. The OS and FCP are in constant communication, much, much more than a small application like the Widgets or word processing.

Remember, processing the audio and video files during editing is THE most intensive thing any computer can do and requires the most horsepower from any processor, RAM, video card and hard-drive combination. The more efficient each component is the easier the system can do even relatively "simple" things like render a crossfade.

Robert Lane · March 1st, 2006, 04:39 PM

Woke up this thread for you...

David Saraceno · March 1st, 2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik

Is the upgrade to FCP for use on the new Powerbooks going to be a free download or will it require us to purchase a new version on cd?

Nope. Download the form. Send the money and original discs.

Bad way of doing it.

Leonard Levy · March 2nd, 2006, 11:57 PM

Robert,
When you switched to the 7200 RPM internal drive , specifically what did you notice as a performance increase?
Do you think this a mandantory change to guarantee reliable "capture now " performance.

Also do you mind if I post your set-up instructions ( with credit to you of course) on my web-site?
Alternately I could just make it a link (though those are always tenuous if the original changes.)

Good idea to make it a sticky.
- Lenny

February 4th, 2006, 01:49 PM	#16
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	As long as you’re not doing over 3 to 4 streams of DVC PRO HD, you should be OK with fire-wire 400. Also I don’t think the PowerBook can handle any more than 4 streams even with fire-wire 800 although I may be wrong. The screen resolution is only a little bit less than the previous PowerBook There is an ExpressCard/34 slot. There should be an adapter available when the MacBook is released to use PCMCIA media, at least I would hope! The Final Cut Pro version that is coming out next month should be compatible to both systems. As for the S-Video output, that is a big mistake on Apple’s part and yes Apple included a single layer DVD burner only to keep the laptop thin. Apple may be thinking that people don’t need dual layer DVD burning considering that people who want to store more content on a DVD may opt to get a Blue Ray or HD DVD burner as well. It could be a strategy to get people to buy them, although I do understand how expensive they will be once they get released. Hopefully Apple releases a 17 inch model right away with the missing features. Last edited by Paulo Teixeira; February 4th, 2006 at 02:41 PM.

February 4th, 2006, 10:45 PM	#17
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	Another change... I just replaced the 5400rpm drive that came with my PB with a 7200rpm Hitachi. It made for a noticeable performance increase. If I get any dropped frames or other problems it'll be because of operator error, not because the hardware didn't work properly. __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

February 7th, 2006, 01:05 AM	#19
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	Hans, Sounds like you're doing it right; when you select "non-contollable device" in the capture preset or when using the "log and capture" window FCP automatically puts timecode in for you since a non-controllable device isn't sending timecode usually. A good example is when I captured footage output from a DVD player (actually it was my Playstation being used as a DVD player). I set the same settings as above, hit the "capture now" button and FCP assigned the clip it's own timecode. And by the way, I've been doing exactly that with my HVX during testing; I'm connected only via Firewire directly to the PB using the "non-controllable device" setting for "capture now". So far, it works like a charm. __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

February 7th, 2006, 09:28 AM	#22
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	Marty, Here is the webpage that talks specifically about upgrade/crossgrade options. The discs are not free but the cost is minimal: http://www.apple.com/universal/crossgrade/ Danny, I did the switch myself. Whether or not it voids the warranty is a bit of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. There is a great website: www.pbfixit.com. They have free, step-by-step printable web-guides that show you exactly how to replace/upgrade just about anything for a Powerbook and they even sell the parts. BE CAREFUL: If you've never worked on micro-electronics or seen the inside of a laptop I don't recommend the DIY method. There are a host of small, fragile ribbon-cables that connect all the sub-components together, and doing something as simple as opening the main case can easily rip one out of it's snap connectors and damage the cable. However, if you're handy with electronics and understand concepts like ESD and using an anti-static armband you can easily swap the HD - or any other interal component - yourself. __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

February 7th, 2006, 11:31 PM	#26
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	Jaser, If you read the original post this is exactly the situation you'll have when capturing directly to a PB with the HVX, which is why it's important to separate the FW busses from each other so that the camera, which is a FW100 device doesn't slow down the external drive to the same speed. It's very important to note that any external drive needs to have a faster data input rate than the camera is sending out. The reason is, the PB is NOT simply transferring the raw camera data to the drive (if it were, then it would just be a very complex P2 card). Instead, FCP is "translating" the FW footage from the camera into a Quicktime file that can be used for editing. Those files are larger than the original data coming out of the camera because it's being "wrapped" with Quicktime meta-data and audio tags that the camera itself is not creating. I have absolutely no idea what the actual translation percentage is, but a very rough example would be: For every single bit of data coming that comes out of the camera, FCP is adding another 2-4 bits on top of that to create the Quicktime file. If the drive was exactly the same speed as the data coming into the PB, the drive would never be able to catch up and you'd end up with either nothing but dropped frames or a completely corrupted data stream. It's a long-winded answer, but maybe now it's more apparent why having a fast external drive is so important to HD capture. __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

February 7th, 2006, 03:29 AM	#20
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Is the upgrade to FCP for use on the new Powerbooks going to be a free download or will it require us to purchase a new version on cd?

February 7th, 2006, 11:38 PM	#27
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	Hans, Absolutely, the main drive does access the OS and FCP continually during the capture process. It doesn't do it nearly as much as when the application first loads up into RAM, but it is still being accessed nonetheless. As mentioned above in my reply to Jaser, FCP has to translate the raw capture files into usable Quicktime files. The Quicktime engine is a native part of OSX not FCP. In fact, FCP calls out to the Quicktime engine IN the OS, not the other way around. The OS and FCP are in constant communication, much, much more than a small application like the Widgets or word processing. Remember, processing the audio and video files during editing is THE most intensive thing any computer can do and requires the most horsepower from any processor, RAM, video card and hard-drive combination. The more efficient each component is the easier the system can do even relatively "simple" things like render a crossfade. __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

March 1st, 2006, 04:39 PM	#28
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	For Charles Woke up this thread for you... __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

March 2nd, 2006, 11:57 PM	#30
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Robert, When you switched to the 7200 RPM internal drive , specifically what did you notice as a performance increase? Do you think this a mandantory change to guarantee reliable "capture now " performance. Also do you mind if I post your set-up instructions ( with credit to you of course) on my web-site? Alternately I could just make it a link (though those are always tenuous if the original changes.) Good idea to make it a sticky. - Lenny