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Old February 4th, 2006, 03:51 PM   #1
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Procedure after HDD fills up and storage?

Being a newbie at this, I understand basically what the HVX200 can do and it's features, but the part that I quite can't grasp yet is the process after shooting. Yes I can film on DV tape and/or downconvert from P2 to DV tape. I can also download from P2 to an external hard drive for storage or the the computer to edit. That's as far as I understand at this point.

What do I do for long term storage or when the hard drive fills up? What is the next step? How do you go back and pull your HD film out for viewing at a later date? If I want to watch that ' wedding ' again 8 months down the road, then what? Blue ray or HD DVD burners are quite a ways off as yet. What is the basic process now with not getting into 10K of accessories?

I can really use any help in this procedure that will help this new newbee.

Thanks
John
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Old February 5th, 2006, 12:19 AM   #2
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You can get a 500GB hard drive for under $400. That should probably hold 8 plus hours of DVCProHD. Untill 50GB BluRay happens, you'll have to build storage on hard drives into your price structure (unless you want to back up to data tapes). If you can't afford $400 for 8 hours of storage then you're not charging your clients enough. This isn't a DV camera and you shouldn't be charging DV rates to shoot.

I've heard that CinePorter may eventually have a 320GB drive but at the moment they are FireStore are only showing 100GB (a bit under 2 hours if you use the highest frame rate). They are just over $2000 a piece. You'd need 3 to be safe for a wedding. Don't forget batteries too. You're shooting a wedding with $13,000 (and up) worth of gear. Think about the cost of your editing system and a means for delivery right now WMVHD IF your client has HDTV and a DVD player that can play WMVHD.

I'd consider $3000 for an HD wedding on the low side.

What happens if they want a 2 camera wedding shoot? This is common.

BTW The Pansonic AJ-HP126EX tape which actually only holds about 60 minutes at HD data rate sells for about $130 on order from B&H. That's about $1000 in tape for 8 hours of DVCProHD. The 126L holds about 30 minutes but it's only about $24. That's still $48/hr for tape.

$400 for 8 hours of hard drive storage is reasonable for HD archival. I also think One 500GB drive is easier to store than 8-16 DVCProHD tapes. 50GB BluRay may be easier and more secure when the time comes.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 03:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Seeman
I'd consider $3000 for an HD wedding on the low side.
What happens if they want a 2 camera wedding shoot? This is common.
I've yet to think of a cost-effective and practical way to shoot weddings with an HVX200, but you can basically do so at DV prices with HDV cameras. In the long run the going rate for an HD wedding video won't be much more than it is now for SD, but the current typical premium seems to be ~$500-1000 over SD prices.

Regarding storage of P2 video data, large hard drives or DLT tape seem like the best solutions for now.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 03:30 AM   #4
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Or Iomega Revpro disks at 35Gb each. External USB2 unit with swappable disk cartridges. Estimated 30 year lifespan, should be more robust than a hard drive plus if the mechanism wears out just replace the drive unit and you should not loose any data as that will be on the removable disks. 10 blank disks approx $70. These are the disks the Grass Valley Infinity camcorder will record to.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 01:51 PM   #5
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BIG difference between HDV and HVX. HVX may be overkill for the wedding market BUT I think in a year or so as storage and archival solutions come out and down in price, they'll be much closer.

HDV should cost more until the work flow is the same time/price as DV. They're not for a wedding videographer (or anybody else). The downconvert to DV takes time unless you're doing it on capture. Working in the downcoverted DV is no issue at all though.

Working in HDV, you have a MAJOR expense if you're color correcting (video card and HD Monitor) and rendering to recreate the GOP structure. No reasonable business committs you to MORE HOURS of work for the same flat rate. You lose money/time. It's not really a "premium." You simply have to up your rates to maintain the same income per hour worked.

I actually think there's no reason to shoot a wedding in HD unless the client will pay for HD delivery (WMVHD for now).

BTW I'm honestly not sure there's going to be much of a profit on couples asking for HD versions of current SD delivered wedding videos to view when HDDVD/BluRay players hit the market. Your cost for the HD burner wil be HUGE as will the cost for their player. I'd think you'd have to charge $100 a disk or more (and the price for blank disks will be high for months if not longer after they arrive to market) and have enough orders to cover the cost. This will all change in the next few years but certainly NOT this year and into next year.

Shooting in 16:9 DV is a different story since it's still DV with the same DV cost and workflow.

Lets put this another way

You spend about 60% more for the HDV camera if you compare cost of PD-170 to Z1.
You spend over $3000 for the HDV deck unless you plan on wearing out the heads of your new camera with hours of wedding video loading.
Buy a video card since you can't otherwise send HDV to a video monitor.
Buy an HD Monitor to do color correction. You HAVE to do that if you're a professional even as a wedding videographer. I do some Color Correction on all weddings.
You've now spent $10,000 more for a proper HDV workflow.
You now have to spend additional time doing downconverts or rendering to recreate the HDV GOP if you decide to edit in HDV.

What business models allows for spending $10,000 in additional gear and more time in post production and keep the same rates as DV? A rate increase isn't even generating more profit. We're talking about higher rates simply to COVER COSTS. Certainly you can go higher if one wants a "premium" for HD.

Add the very high costs of a burnera and player when the HD burners arrive and the initially high cost of the blank media.

All this and you still need to think about what portion of your clients actually want HD delivery. You pay for the gear even if only 5% of your clients ask for HD delivery. Those 5% have to cover the entire cost of purchase and maintenance.

Of course all the above changes as HD becomes dominant and equipment prices drop but that isn't TODAY and may not be for a year or even two.

You have to increase price just to break even on expenses or you're going to tank your wedding business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw
I've yet to think of a cost-effective and practical way to shoot weddings with an HVX200, but you can basically do so at DV prices with HDV cameras. In the long run the going rate for an HD wedding video won't be much more than it is now for SD, but the current typical premium seems to be ~$500-1000 over SD prices.

Regarding storage of P2 video data, large hard drives or DLT tape seem like the best solutions for now.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:15 PM   #6
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Thank you for all the input. Lots to think about for sure.

John
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