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Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
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Old February 25th, 2006, 02:59 PM   #1
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Panasonic HDV?

Does anyone know if Panasonic has any plans to, or is even considering, manufacturing an HDV camcorder?

Personally, I would like to see a 720p, HDV offering, from one of the majors, that has 3 1/3" CCDS (1/2" would be awfully sweet), AF and OIS, along with a reasonably robust set of controls, at a price under 5k. I'd like shoulder mounted, but handheld would be okay.
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Old February 25th, 2006, 03:04 PM   #2
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Somewhere on the internet there's a white paper, from Panasonic, where the explicit tell you why the developed DVCpro HD and not to choose HDV. They're not in the HDV consortium either, so I don't think that's gonna happen..
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Old February 25th, 2006, 03:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Wright
Does anyone know if Panasonic has any plans to, or is even considering, manufacturing an HDV camcorder?

Personally, I would like to see a 720p, HDV offering, from one of the majors, that has 3 1/3" CCDS (1/2" would be awfully sweet), AF and OIS, along with a reasonably robust set of controls, at a price under 5k. I'd like shoulder mounted, but handheld would be okay.
As Vincent said, it looks like Panasonic has no interest in HDV. IMO, I think HDV is a stepping stone technology... It will improve as solid state and hard disk options improve over time and we will see data rates increase as the market moves away from using MiniDV tape. XDCAM is essentially HDV on steroids and uses 3.5" BluRay discs with a single laser for 33Mbps data streams. Plans for 72Mbps and 144Mbps XDCAM cameras and media are already on the table.

As for the camera you would like to see, you basically just described the JVC HD100. Have you taken one for a test drive? Nice camera and under $5K... I only have four complaints about the HD100

1: The stock lens isn't real good, but they're supposedly going to start shipping an updated version with a better lens.

2: It only uses a 19Mbps data rate instead of the full 25Mbps rate that could be placed on a MiniDV tape. Why!!!!???

3: Only offers 60p in SD resolution.

4: The split-CCD arrangement is noticeable in some situations and shooting environments and can be a factor that plays a role in planning your shoot. I wouldn't want to deal with it as a possible factor while doing run-'n-gun or live event work.

Of the current crop of low priced HD cameras, the HD100 produces the softest and least detailed images, but has much better color and range than the Canon or Sony cameras. ...But that's just my opinion.

And I crapped in this thread and it now belongs in the JVC forum, I guess...
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Old February 25th, 2006, 03:40 PM   #4
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The HD100U looks like a real attractive camera (especially at the price point).

My biggest concern with the HD100U would be the lack of AF and OIS for run and gun (AF and OIS can be awfully useful for that). Some people like being limited to only having manual focus available to them and feel shoulder mounting offers good enough stability, but I look at AF as an additional tool (which is an option!) that can be quite useful when the situation calls for it, and, at HD resolutions, even shoulder mounted without OIS seems like it would be a little to shaky at times, particularly when zoomed, to me.
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Old February 25th, 2006, 03:46 PM   #5
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Quick note: I don't really care if a camera has constant AF abilities or not, per se. I sure wouldn't want mandatory auto focus! Auto push (focus) is what I really want. I want that extra tool available.
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Old February 25th, 2006, 05:34 PM   #6
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On the consumer side, they might someday offer HDV if HDV catches on with consumers.

On the professional side, they have said that they will never offer a pro HDV camera. They do not consider HDV a pro format and their professional division will not offer it. DVCPRO-HD is their first-stage HD format on the professional side; they've shown pics of a forthcoming P2 camera that would use HD-D5, and who knows from there -- H.264 maybe? JPEG2000?

But no, there will not be tape-based MPEG-2 HDV coming from Panasonic's professional division.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 03:16 AM   #7
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Panasonic has said they will offer an MPEG-2 camcorder. Which means anything from a 18Mbps to 160Mbps data rate.

It was planned for NAB 2005 but then they switched to DVCPRO HD because they had such an investment in creating a DVCPRO infrastructure.

My guess they'll do MPEG-2 only when they can do 4:2:2 -- which means about 70Mbps to 100Mbps. It will enter the market as a Varicam.

At the consumer level they'll do HDV but it won't be called HDV because it will be written to SD. They showed a mockup at NAB 2004. Said it would arrive in 2006.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 06:34 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
...they'll do HDV but it won't be called HDV because it will be written to SD. They showed a mockup at NAB 2004.
Just to clarify for some folks, by SD, Steve refers to Secure Digital flash memory card, not Standard Definition. It won't be called HDV because Panasonic is not a member of the HDV consortium (and probably never will be). Also, the HDV consortium has deemed that any product carrying the HDV format logo must feature an HDV tape transport, so we'll never see a tapeless HDV camcorder. Instead, we'll see tapeless camcorders that are "similar to HDV" under the name of some other format. The mockup Steve refers to is the proposed MPEG-2 "ray gun" camcorder with a folding pistol grip similar to 1970's era Super 8mm movie cameras. It was also shown at InterBEE 2004 in Japan and some people mistakenly thought it was the then-unseen but anticipated HVX200.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 08:08 AM   #9
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re

I think in these moments, Sony is the king in the prosumer HDV cameras and I think sony go so far for its own interest with the hc1, quality-price, the solution: Hc3 A1? FX1 ... instead HC1 A1 FX1
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Old February 26th, 2006, 08:32 AM   #10
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In the HDV consortium, Panasonic has no involvement, just JVC, Sony, Canon and Sharp:

www.hdv-info.org

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Old February 26th, 2006, 10:32 AM   #11
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What I would like to see is a portable device (hard drive or minidv HD deck) writing in hdv.
It would make hvx more versatile and "user friendly"
Don't take me wrong I love the P2 and DVCPRO-HD idea, but what if you shoot four interviews in one day, and your budget is (always)tight.
In my opinion, Panasonic has limited the range of the users without the option to expend.

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Old February 26th, 2006, 11:01 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Albert Rudnicki
In my opinion, Panasonic has limited the range of the users without the option to expend.
I don't know about that... It's a wide open market for anyone wanting to create a compact HDV deck with component and SDI inputs. JVC and Sony already have compact HDV decks... The Sony deck is small, but not all that portable and expensive ($3700). The JVC is about as portable as it gets and runs off batteries. Although, I don't believe it records - just playback. Perhaps we'll see updated models and options at NAB. But currently, the Sony deck could probably be picked up on eBay for a resonable price and you could connect the component out of the HVX to the deck and record HDV during an interview. Although, for the price and in terms of video quality, I think it makes more sense to record directly to a notebook computer.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 11:31 AM   #13
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What about a hard drive with an hdv codec and SDI in.
That could be a cost effective solution?

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Old February 26th, 2006, 11:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Albert Rudnicki
What about a hard drive with an hdv codec and SDI in.
That could be a cost effective solution?

Albert Rudnicki
Perhaps... I bet it would cost about the same as the upcoming FireStore unit.

Just curious though... What is the lure of HDV over DVCPROHD? I'm not really sure why so many people are upset that the HVX is not an HDV camcorder. I can see where bitrate is lower and overall storage and archival solutions are more simple with HDV. However, it doesn't handle intense motion as well and all the color and whatnot claims aside, HDV is currently limited to 1080i60 and 720p30. It doesn't have the elegance of the DVCPRO implementation on the HVX that allows 720p24n or full 720p60, etc..
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Old February 26th, 2006, 12:08 PM   #15
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What is the lure of HDV over DVCPROHD?
$2 tapes vs $2000 P2 cards?

Also, frankly, I'm not convinced that DVCPRO HD is a particularly good codec: certainly if I convert HDV to DVCPRO HD and then back to 25Mbps MPEG-2 the final output is noticeably worse than the original footage. If I do the same with Avid's DNxHD codec there's no significant difference: admittedly, though, it is 185Mbps rather than 100Mbps.
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