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Old June 22nd, 2006, 01:45 PM   #16
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I am going to try the P2 software that is basically a P2 Store emulator and see how that works out...



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Old June 22nd, 2006, 02:27 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Barry Green
128gb cards are dependent upon there being a 32gb SD card, of course. Samsung has announced that they've made a breakthrough in NAND technology that could see a 32gb SD card on the market as early as the end of this year.
This really begs the question of whether the HVX200 will be the last P2 camera marketed, at least in the sub 2/3" market. P2 was originally conceived of necessity, an ingenious way of getting a realistic amount of solid state memory into a package with write/read speeds capable of handling 100Mbs.

If 32GB SD cards really do make an appearance later this year, then surely P2 becomes unnecessary, and cameras recording directly to SD/CompactFlash will potentially make far more sense, and make the use of solid state viable for a far greater number of people? Especially combined with the likelihood of more efficient codecs such as JPEG2000 and AVC-Intra - the quality of DVCProHD at 50Mbs!
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 03:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Heath
This really begs the question of whether the HVX200 will be the last P2 camera marketed, at least in the sub 2/3" market. P2 was originally conceived of necessity, an ingenious way of getting a realistic amount of solid state memory into a package with write/read speeds capable of handling 100Mbs.

If 32GB SD cards really do make an appearance later this year, then surely P2 becomes unnecessary, and cameras recording directly to SD/CompactFlash will potentially make far more sense, and make the use of solid state viable for a far greater number of people? Especially combined with the likelihood of more efficient codecs such as JPEG2000 and AVC-Intra - the quality of DVCProHD at 50Mbs!
There is one factor not mentioned; the advantage of the P2 architecture isn't just being solid state, but that it's SD in a RAID configuration. As the P2 whitepapers show (and if I had a 4GB card to test against my 8GB I could prove) that as capacity increases so does R/W speeds. A single SD card cannot compete in R/W speeds to that of a comparable P2 card. Consider the same comparison of a single HDD of any capacity vs. a 4-HDD RAID in the same capacity.

So while larger SD cards are about to hit the market the spin-off benefit is that the P2 cards will then get the larger capacites and become faster.

Panasonic didn't design P2 as in intermediate step for eventual migration to another media, it is and will be a long-term technology investment just as XDCAM is for Sony.

My guess is that within 2 years, P2 capacities and speeds will be fast/large enough to handle full-res uncompressed HD from Vari-cam type bodies or, more advanced P2 bodies.

Although the ENG version of the P2 body has been on the market for almost two years, the P2 system is very much still in it's infancy and within the next 2 years you'll see it become much more powerful and versatile on both the hardware and software sides of production.
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 03:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Heath
If 32GB SD cards really do make an appearance later this year, then surely P2 becomes unnecessary, and cameras recording directly to SD/CompactFlash will potentially make far more sense, and make the use of solid state viable for a far greater number of people? Especially combined with the likelihood of more efficient codecs such as JPEG2000 and AVC-Intra - the quality of DVCProHD at 50Mbs!
While that is all true, it doesn't render P2 obsolete. By using the larger form factor, P2 can still continue to deliver increased storage and bandwidth vs. a single SD card. Also, P2 is form factor and interface standard. The internals pertaining to the storage method and medium are entirely dependent on the manufacturer. There is no reason future P2 cards couldn't consist of 2 CF cards internally or other forms of nonvolatile memory. Another example would be the CinePorter in that it is a P2 device that connects to an externally mounted hard drive system. There is no reason we can't have a PCMCIA 802.11N network card with a P2-compliant interface that could buffer and stream error-corrected and verified DVCPROHD100 wirelessly to host system with a competent RAID or other storage system. Could be a notebook computer or a system on a cart in studio or a system in the back of a van on location... I chose the new Wireless-N standard that's pending approval as it has sufficient bandwidth to handle multiple DVCPROHD streams and it has the range and fidelity to cope with just about any indoor or outdoor situation with farily large distances (better than 802.11A or B/G).
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 05:48 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Robert Lane
So while larger SD cards are about to hit the market the spin-off benefit is that the P2 cards will then get the larger capacites and become faster.

Panasonic didn't design P2 as in intermediate step for eventual migration to another media, .........
In my previous post (and referring to whether the HVX200 will be the last P2 camera marketed), I did add the rider "at least in the sub 2/3" market", and I would like to stress that. It's quite conceivable that P2 will remain as preferable in the high end sector, but I'd maintain that the real significance of the news Barry posted (at least to the big majority of users) is that it opens the door to a viable much-lower-than-P2-cost solution in the future, as opposed to it simply allowing larger P2 cards to be built.

In the past CF/SD just wasn't an option for professional video. Now it is. In the past P2 was a necessity, now it just allows faster downloading into a high end system.

For *most* users I'd maintain that the benefits of P2 will increasingly be an unnecessary expense cf CF/SD, and that to be especially true at the 1/3" end of the market. So whilst there may well indeed be future high end P2 cameras, it wouldn't surprise me if the HVX200 is the last at that price point.
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 09:17 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Heath
This really begs the question of whether the HVX200 will be the last P2 camera marketed, at least in the sub 2/3" market. P2 was originally conceived of necessity, an ingenious way of getting a realistic amount of solid state memory into a package with write/read speeds capable of handling 100Mbs.

If 32GB SD cards really do make an appearance later this year, then surely P2 becomes unnecessary, and cameras recording directly to SD/CompactFlash will potentially make far more sense, and make the use of solid state viable for a far greater number of people? Especially combined with the likelihood of more efficient codecs such as JPEG2000 and AVC-Intra - the quality of DVCProHD at 50Mbs!
Hi David

Wow................. where did you get that info on 32GB SD cards?

After a fairly extensive search on the net all I came up with was Pani's 4 GB cards and some blather about a new SD standard being discussed. Didn't find anything on >4GB cards. If you have a link please post it.

I think it would be great if SD could do up to 32GB. :-)

Thanks
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 10:14 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by John Godden
Hi David

Wow................. where did you get that info on 32GB SD cards?
I was merely commenting on what Barry Green said in post no 6 in this thread, drawing a different conclusion from what he posted than he did - that if the cards do indeed become a reality by the year end, then the real significance is more likely that future cameras will simply record to CF/SD than P2. Perhaps Barry would like to furnish the reference you ask for?
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 03:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ash Greyson
Sorry Chris but you really missed my point. When a tape is full, you pop in another tape. When your P2 cards are full... then what? You are looking at a good hour to transfer and verify twp 16GB P2 cards...
Ash well said, this P2 stuff needs to be addressed!!
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