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Old June 20th, 2006, 02:21 PM   #1
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Any rumors of a 'mini HVX' ?

Greetings

Has anyone heard of an A1 sized HVX in the long-term plans for Pani?

The HVX 'format' appears to be near perfect for me but the size/weight isn't really practical.

Thanks
JohnG
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Old June 20th, 2006, 02:30 PM   #2
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if anything, it would be a HDD or solid state (SD) based consumer unit recording to MP4.
The format has already ben approved.. now we wait for units to take advantage of it..

Oh how nice it woudl be to have the HVX encode to MP4 ...
maybe one day...
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Old June 20th, 2006, 02:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson
if anything, it would be a HDD or solid state (SD) based consumer unit recording to MP4.
The format has already ben approved.. now we wait for units to take advantage of it..

Oh how nice it woudl be to have the HVX encode to MP4 ...
maybe one day...
Hi Peter

Thanks for the response.

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm thinking the big jump from where I am currently at (SD video) is the DVCProHD resolution and multiple frame rate capability.

Does MP4 (MPEG4?) have similar capabilities?

I'm sick and tired of SD artifacts. ;-)

Regards
JohnG
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Old June 20th, 2006, 03:46 PM   #4
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In all fairness to the previous poster, I do not anticipate nor expect any A1U version of the HVX200.

Panasonic can't keep up with demand, and the cam has only been out since December 29th, and certainly not in any quantify even by early Summer.

If you got clients and can make money, buy now and don't wait.
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Old June 21st, 2006, 12:49 AM   #5
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If anything should happen it wont have many features that would trump the HVX, I certainly would not expect multiple frame rates, manual adjustments, etc. Panny will probably release an SD card camera but it will surely be very "consumer"



ash =o)
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Old June 21st, 2006, 09:35 AM   #6
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The consumer division will be introducing SD-card-recording H.264-based cameras. Look for the press releases about AVC-HD; that's the direction Panasonic is taking in the consumer category.

Doesn't make it a bad format though -- it's every bit an equal to, and quite superior in many ways, to HDV. Better audio, full raster recording, and more efficient than MPEG-2 recording. Sony and Panasonic jointly introduced the format, and it looks like they're using the same philosophies that govern their bigger cams: Sony is recording on mini-DVD (like a blu-ray-lite?) and Panasonic is choosing to record onto SD cards (like a P2-lite?)

I'm no fan of long-GOP at all, but I think AVC-HD probably hits the right sweet spot. It's replacing HDV and it's more efficient (should be on par with XDCAM-HD; 18 megabits of H.264 should match 36 megabits of MPEG-2). Don't know what editing will be like though; probably will be even more processor-intensive than HDV is.

I hope Panasonic adds AVC-HD to the next-generation HVX. It would increase P2 recording times by about 5x. Sure it'll have some long-GOP issues, similar to HDV, but for those who find HDV acceptable, this would be a better-than-HDV system and you'd get an instant longform recording algorithm too. And hey, you don't HAVE to use it, so for those who need what DVCPRO-HD offers (frame-discrete compression, 4:2:2 color sampling, etc) they'd have that, and they'd have the ability to swap to AVC-HD for times when they simply must have the longer record times it offers. (maybe think of it like an HD "LP" mode?)
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Old June 21st, 2006, 09:55 AM   #7
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Any idea what the price point for this consumer model might be, and what NLE's will support editing h.264
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Old June 21st, 2006, 11:06 AM   #8
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There is nothing out yet on features, timing or prices. If Panasonic stays true to previous practices, they will bring out a high end consumer model (read $1500 suggested retail price) and then remove features for the lower end models and subsequent new models.

As far as NLEs supporting editing of H.264, any of them should be able to do this with a codec. Neither Sony nor Panasonic has announced when the AVCHD codec will be available.
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Old June 21st, 2006, 01:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Green
I think AVC-HD probably hits the right sweet spot. It's replacing HDV and it's more efficient (should be on par with XDCAM-HD; 18 megabits of H.264 should match 36 megabits of MPEG-2).
In theory that may be true, but a lot will depend on the quality of the encoding chip. I'm skeptical whether a real-time H.264 encoder can do much with only 18 Mbps, but it sounds like we'll find out soon enough. Plus there will be other differences between an inexpensive H.264 camcorder and a $20K XDCAM HD setup, so that has to be taken into account when talking about such bit rate comparisons. And then there are issues about recording capacity and cost for H.264 camcorders versus other alternatives, with early AVCHD cameras apparently only offering ~10 minutes of recording capacity per disc at full quality. And you have to be able to edit H.264 effectively once you record it, which will be even more processor intensive than working with HDV.
But getting back to the original question, there have been rumors for some time now that Panasonic might make an HD camera smaller than the HVX200. I haven't seen anything definitive about when that might happen, so it looks like that's probably well into next year at least for a shipping product. In the meantime, if you need a small run-around HD camera the Sony HC1/A1U aren't bad, and even take decent still images on SD memory cards. I'm using an HC1 now for all my personal video work and it's the most fun camcorder I've owned, with images which look very nice except in high contrast or poorly lit situations. And it's hard to beat the convenience of recording either an hour of HDV or 90 minutes of DV on an inexpensive miniDV tape; it'll be a while before other low-cost HD cameras can compete with that. Buy one of the Sony HDV cameras today and I doubt you'll have trouble selling it when something you like better comes along.
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Old June 21st, 2006, 01:53 PM   #10
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Word on the street is that Panasonic will be releasing the HVX-20 before christmas. It will record onto four SD slots, in 1080i or 720p. Revolutionary features will be the 5 built in mics for surround sound and built in wifi wireless allowing you to upload clips to the web. The HVX-20 will feature a huge 7" top mounted screen and the breakthrough SmartSensor® that automatically adjust settings based on visual and audio conditions. So if the sensor hears water splashes and birds, it assumes you are at a outdoor swimming pool, probably in good weather and adjust the proper settings. If there is low light and lots of conversation, the sensor will assume you are at a party and will adjust the settings for the best look, also it will activate the supersteadydrunkstabilizer® to compensate for your inability to walk straight. More features are coming, but my contact at Panasonic has been slow to leak details...
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Old June 21st, 2006, 03:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Tews
Word on the street is that Panasonic will be releasing the HVX-20 before christmas....
I heard that it will feature all of that _AND_ fit in your shirt pocket!
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Old June 21st, 2006, 10:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

snip

In the meantime, if you need a small run-around HD camera the Sony HC1/A1U aren't bad, and even take decent still images on SD memory cards. I'm using an HC1 now for all my personal video work and it's the most fun camcorder I've owned, with images which look very nice except in high contrast or poorly lit situations. And it's hard to beat the convenience of recording either an hour of HDV or 90 minutes of DV on an inexpensive miniDV tape; it'll be a while before other low-cost HD cameras can compete with that. Buy one of the Sony HDV cameras today and I doubt you'll have trouble selling it when something you like better comes along.
Kevin

Thanks for the info on the HC1. That was one of the cameras I have looked at. Only problem is the availability. I have a running ad for one on the buy/sell forum but so far no hits. I'm also considering an A1U. Sure wish Sony hadn't lobotomized the HC3. :(

Kind regards
JohnG
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Old June 24th, 2006, 12:47 PM   #13
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A prototype of a consumer Panasonic HD camcorder has already been shown to the public although I doubt it will be the final design since it can be mistaken for a flashlight.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70368098315550
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Old June 24th, 2006, 02:45 PM   #14
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Holy Whack!!!!!!!!!!

Paulo

You scored on that link.

Even if it's vapor-ware it makes me want one.

Thanks
JohnG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira
A prototype of a consumer Panasonic HD camcorder has already been shown to the public although I doubt it will be the final design since it can be mistaken for a flashlight.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70368098315550
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Last edited by John Godden; June 24th, 2006 at 03:25 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 03:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Godden
Kevin

Thanks for the info on the HC1. That was one of the cameras I have looked at. Only problem is the availability. I have a running ad for one on the buy/sell forum but so far no hits. I'm also considering an A1U. Sure wish Sony hadn't lobotomized the HC3. :(

Kind regards
JohnG
I had an A1U and it worked excellent for a small camera and I used it for a lot of underwater work. Awesome little unit... Anyway, I let a friend borrow it and he later bought it from me.. I picked up an HC3 since I didn't need all the A1's features anymore and I was mostly looking for a cheap toy camera and home movie unit. The HC3 may be somewhat "lobotomized", but it's not a bad camera at all. I'm very pleased with it for the price... But I would recommend the A1 to anyone who actually wants to use the camera for professional work. It's no HVX, but as a B camera that can be thought of as more affordable to put in an underwater housing and a lot more compact for situations that need it, it can't be beat.
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