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Old July 21st, 2006, 09:36 AM   #1
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HVX and the Film Look

I'm currently in production on the biggest project I've ever done (more details when the website is updated) but just yesterday found the "magic touch" for getting really good looking film-like looks from the HVX.

As I've always said, acheiving ANY look in-camera comes from good composition and lighting skills which of course we're using in the studio currently, but I also experimented with GAMMA settings that I previously had not.

Yesterday we did a skin tone test with a model, GMB Color Checker and Kodak IT8 cards. After half an hour of playing with KNEE, PEDESTAL and a few other camera setups I tried the built-in "CINELIKE D" gamma setting - that did the trick!

Shooting in 720p 24P(N) with the CINELIKE D gamma setting gives us the most film-like look - from a color/chroma perspective - than I've ever seen from any of the HD/HDV cameras - I'm just flat-out amazed.

I must admit, that until yesterday I had snubbed my nose at built-in gamma settings in the HVX because of experiences with the XL2 "frame" mode and the Z1 CINEFRAME mode, niether of which looked good at all to me. But like I say, after we all looked at the A-B difference between HD NORM and CINELIKE D, it was plainly clear that Panasonic nailed it for a film-like output.
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Old July 21st, 2006, 09:44 AM   #2
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Robert,

I have found the same thing out too. I pretty much leave it in Cine D all the time and I keep the low-noise settings pretty much there as well. The only time I have switched is sometimes I use the newsgamma when I have to bump up the gain...

Can't wait to see what you come up with. I wholeheartedly concure that this cam gives the most filmic representation. It gives off a WOW factor when there's a nice bright highlight.. and I personally love to push that hotspot as much as I can. I think the cam handles highlights so friggin well...

I'm just itching to get to my narrative project that commences in August. I do feel glad though that I've spent so much time on live events and uncontrolled lighting situations because I now know what the camera likes and dislikes.... Having this cam makes shooting fun again...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lane
I'm currently in production on the biggest project I've ever done (more details when the website is updated) but just yesterday found the "magic touch" for getting really good looking film-like looks from the HVX.

As I've always said, acheiving ANY look in-camera comes from good composition and lighting skills which of course we're using in the studio currently, but I also experimented with GAMMA settings that I previously had not.

Yesterday we did a skin tone test with a model, GMB Color Checker and Kodak IT8 cards. After half an hour of playing with KNEE, PEDESTAL and a few other camera setups I tried the built-in "CINELIKE D" gamma setting - that did the trick!

Shooting in 720p 24P(N) with the CINELIKE D gamma setting gives us the most film-like look - from a color/chroma perspective - than I've ever seen from any of the HD/HDV cameras - I'm just flat-out amazed.

I must admit, that until yesterday I had snubbed my nose at built-in gamma settings in the HVX because of experiences with the XL2 "frame" mode and the Z1 CINEFRAME mode, niether of which looked good at all to me. But like I say, after we all looked at the A-B difference between HD NORM and CINELIKE D, it was plainly clear that Panasonic nailed it for a film-like output.
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Old July 21st, 2006, 09:46 AM   #3
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Robert:

To understand, all you did was access the setting for CINELIKE D gamma, and then used the cam without changing anything else?
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Old July 21st, 2006, 10:25 AM   #4
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Yep. Pretty much. For your own taste, I'd recommend doing a camera test going through all the presets.. and sending the video to a good external video monitor... An HD monitor with color adjustments is the best, I guess. There is quite a difference in the modes. Barry Green has a lot more info on this and other stuff. I"M pretty much a creature of habit. I find something I like and stick with it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Saraceno
Robert:

To understand, all you did was access the setting for CINELIKE D gamma, and then used the cam without changing anything else?
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Old July 21st, 2006, 10:58 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Saraceno
Robert:

To understand, all you did was access the setting for CINELIKE D gamma, and then used the cam without changing anything else?
We first tried manually changing all the sub-settings for color/chroma in the menu. On a whim, I decided to see if the built-in CINELIKE D looked as good as what we were doing manually - it actually looked a tad better, so we're sticking with it.

I can't imagine shooting this camera any other way to create a film-look.
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Old July 21st, 2006, 11:35 AM   #6
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Several people including myself feel that setting the shutter to 200 in film cam mode instead of 180 gives the most filmic motion with the HVX.
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Old July 21st, 2006, 08:05 PM   #7
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Phil... That is very interesting, I might have to try that. I have had interesting results at a 90 degree and also at the 350 degree. Thanks for the tip.
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Old July 21st, 2006, 09:08 PM   #8
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Guys, here's a tip from personal experience. Only use 25 or 24 shutter when in extreme low light situations. Why? Your image well get too soft and stuttery. In my experience, anything above 48 gives a good soilid image.
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Old July 21st, 2006, 10:31 PM   #9
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Its all about a look and the HVX gives you a lot of options (120 to 1000 shutter for 60p looks great) Extremely high speed action - use a 1000 shutter and it really sharpens up the look compared to a 1/60 shutter. Plus, you can pull great stills.

Without a lot of action or a still frame, 1/24 looks alright.
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Old July 23rd, 2006, 01:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Hover
Several people including myself feel that setting the shutter to 200 in film cam mode instead of 180 gives the most filmic motion with the HVX.
Interesting concept, Phil. We're going to test this in the studio tomorrow and see what we get.
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Old July 23rd, 2006, 02:13 PM   #11
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Can someone post some of this Cinegamma D footage?
Or even a comparison of an image with and without that Cinegamma?
I have no interest in buying the camera, but just curious, maybe I could rent it for a project, but it would be nice to see some footage.
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Old July 23rd, 2006, 10:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere
Can someone post some of this Cinegamma D footage?
Or even a comparison of an image with and without that Cinegamma?
I have no interest in buying the camera, but just curious, maybe I could rent it for a project, but it would be nice to see some footage.
I second that I'm very curious to see what you fellas cooked up with this cam... To be honest I've always considered this cam good but lately I am beging to be very impressed with what people are saying... So if u can post some footage, I've see Justyn Rowe's camera work and i must admit it does control lighting pretty good in an uncontrollable enviornment "on location"

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Old July 23rd, 2006, 11:34 PM   #13
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BTW Joey, I've seen one very very very good clip from the HVX, here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=68179

That must be the best footage I've seen from this camera so far...
But other clips would be nice too.
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Old July 25th, 2006, 12:18 AM   #14
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I find that gamma D does look good but is pretty noisy in some cases. I prefer to warm the colors up a notch or two, push the phase a little toward green and lower the master pedestal. Remember, the shutter should only be adjusted for EFFECT, it cannot be fixed later. In film mode it should be 180, you can try other settings but you will be applying an irreversible effect, make sure you like it.

Some shows are going for this look not, Good Eats is one of them. They tried straight 24P but nobody liked it, now they are on like a /120th shutter. I still prefer (and most audiences would concur) 60i for to the camera stuff. The high shutter DOES look better for that app than straight 24p though...




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Old July 25th, 2006, 06:13 PM   #15
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Robert,
I also prefer Cine D in most cases.
Did you drop the black level below the "0" that Pani starts with?
I am on vacation and not near my camera , but as I recall I dropped the black levels on all my gammas to -3 except for Cine D which needed to go down to -4 to get cap black down to "0" ire where it belongs. This helps with the apparent noise issue. I think the noise business re Cine D is just that you are seeing more shadow detail, so there is more noise there. You can eliminate that lower with Cine V but only by crushing shadow detail which I generally don't like.
(Maybe those black settings were -4 and -5, I can't recall. I did notice that in SD I needed to set my blacks a point or so lower than in HD and that those settings matched the DVX.)
Also it looked to me like cine gamma also required a slight tweek up in chroma and also detail level to make a picture that was roughly similar to the other gammas. Anyone else think Cine D was softer detailwise?
Once you did this though it was quite pleasing and had a much longer contrast range than any of the others- i.e. more filmike.
It seemed to me (limited testing I admit) that cinematrix was the same as normal matrix with the chroma setting up somewhere between +3 & +5. The other matrixes - flouro & enhanced really did seem like they emphazised different colors though.
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