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Old January 7th, 2007, 02:10 AM   #1
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Basic questions on footage compatability with HDV cameras.

My apologies for these very basic questions but I was unable to find the answers via the search feature on the forum as too many results were returned due to the relatively common keywords involved.

That being said, I am wondering if the footage produced by the AG-HVX200 would be compatible with HDV footage in post edit without major tweaking.

With Panasonic's offer of a free P2 card, Mr. Green's book, AND financing having been extended, I'm seriously trying to work out a business model that I can justify the investment with.

One scenario I am looking at includes a potential revenue stream as a "for hire" second camera for event/wedding videographers. Since I imagine that the majority of these primary shooters will initially be using HVD based systems due to their lower cost of entry, I am wondering if the the footage I shoot with the 200 will be compatible with their HDV acquired footage?

I know that this will be in part dependent on the editing system that the primary shooters use as certain types of software may not support HDV and the all of the Panasonic shooting options so that may be the major sticking point. If this is the case, is there a conversion I could perform that would make my footage available in an intermediary file format that is HDV compatible? (I'll be using Apple FCS HD and a MacBook Pro.)

Aside from any editing software limitations, I'm also concerned that the 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 colorspace will present real problems in post. Namely will it be possible to edit in my second camera footage without creating shifts in image quality/color saturation that are discernable by the end user, I.E. the couple getting married?

Thanks in advance for any comments including links to outside sites or other posts in this forum.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 10:19 AM   #2
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Blake, there may be a way to down-convert DVCPRO HD to edit with HDV, although since I haven't done it I can't tell you how- nor can I say if an HDV editor would want to deal with that.

But before you'd even get to that stage, your real problem will be recording time; assuming you're shooting DVCPRO HD 1080i to "match" with HDV 1080i, you'll only get 8 minutes per 8GB card. Even with 2 cards that's only 16 minutes. If only wedding ceremonies were that short...

You would need a FireStore or something similar to shoot long-form with the HVX200. As great of a tool as the HVX is, one disadvantage is the short recording time. That will change when bigger cards come out, hopefully sooner than later, but for now we have to deal with it.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 11:06 AM   #3
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Blake,

There is one product that would convert your HDV footage into DVCPRO: http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_...DConnectMI.htm

However, it can't turn 4:2:0 into 4:2:2 (you can't get something from nothing) all it does is convert the long-GOP HDV into i-Frame DVCPRO - or any other mainline codec you prefer.

It also can't address the issue Ben mentioned, which is that currently the HVX is not suited to long-form recording in it's native setup - not yet.

My advice, is that if you already own and or are already working with HDV shooters then don't reinvent the wheel trying to migrate the HVX into the workflow; it would be the classic "square peg in round hole" venture and not worth your time.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 02:44 PM   #4
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Robert, a few followups,

Robert, I think you misread my intention which is probably my fault for being too wordy. What I'm trying to do is however counter intuitive. I want to shoot with the HVX and then REDUCE the quality of that footage by converting it to a file format that HDV editors can use. I'll be supplying the supplementary shots but if HDV users can't integrate my footage there is no point in persuing this income stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lane
It also can't address the issue Ben mentioned, which is that currently the HVX is not suited to long-form recording in it's native setup - not yet.
Robert and Ben, Thanks for the heads up on shooting time limitations. I was aware of them and planned to work around them in the following fashion. First of all as a second cameraman I was going to be offering my services not as a tripod bound establishing shot which would require long shot durations, but as a camera that could get a list of special shots "in camera" that HDV shooters can't match such as overcranked 720P footage of bouquet tosses and couples exiting the church or any other place where slow motion might be of benefit. Of course I'd shoot some live motion as well but I envisioned that being such tedium as making the rounds of the guest's tables with a wireless stick mike to capture all of their best wishes. In situations such as this I'd essentially be making a series of short clips so the time limitations wouldn't be too bad. In addition, I envision using two 8GB cards (one free from the rebate) and a P2-Store so I could theoretically get up to 72 GB of footage (60 in the P2-store and 8GB on each card) but in practice I'm sure I'd be nowhere near that figure.

Ideally, at the end of the shoot I could download all the data to my laptop on site, run the file conversions, put them on an external drive, and give the drive to the primary shooter before leaving. Or, if the conversion process takes too long I could do it overnight and then drop the drive off with the primary shooter in the morning.

I know its a bit of "Square peg, round hole" as you said, but I don't think there will be enough primary shooters out there using the HVX to create a viable second camera wedding market serving just them.

As an aside if I get just one gig like this per month, it will cover my payments on the HVX and all associated gear.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:14 PM   #5
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Blake, the core of your original question was whether HVX footage and HDV are compatible and the link Robert supplied was as good as anything for that purpose. Now, if you were simply talking about whether it "looks good" cut with HDV, that is somewhat subjective- but I'm sure someone could pull it off.

I can't speak for others but my advice against using the HVX for something like a wedding is based solely on real, practical experience with the camera and being acutely aware of its limitations. If you've made up your mind already, then good luck to you & please share what you learn.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 04:29 PM   #6
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Blake,

As one who personally pushes the limits on just about everything I admire your out-of-the-box thinking. What you're suggesting might just work; since you don't have to deal with the POST headaches (literally and figuratively) it seems like a viable workflow. I'm not sure if the Convergent box will convert DVCPRO into HDV (it might) but that would certainly be an easy workaround.

And your model of capturing short-term shots as second fits how the HVX could easily fill that role; besides, it wouldn't hurt as a second angle to have the footage look a little different from the main anyway - think of it as creative license.

I say go for it, but try renting an HVX first and see if things go as planned. I can tell you from experience when trying something new there are always unforseen hurdles and if you run across any that are deal-killers then you won't be stuck trying to figure out how to pay for a purchased camera.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 11:03 PM   #7
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If your HDV camera can record via component HD input, you could record your HVX footage to HDV tape. Though I don't know if this is viable...
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Old January 8th, 2007, 12:39 AM   #8
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No HDV camera or deck offers that functionality.
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