Best compression for 720P??? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders
All AG-HPX and AJ-PX Series camcorders and P2 / P2HD hardware.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 24th, 2007, 02:18 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 670
Best compression for 720P???

Does anyone have an opinion on the best timeline settings for FCP, when editing DVCPRO HD? My goal is to get the highest quality video to send through the DVD compression grinder.

These have been my sequence settings: frame size: HD 960x720, pixel aspect ratio: 960x720, and compressor settings DVCPRO HD 720p60. I assumed this was correct. It looks nice on the monitor, much crappier on TV from the DVD, but I expected that.

However, I recently read somewhere that you should always export "uncompressed", to avoid losing image quality. Curious, I decided to switch the compressor settings to "Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2", and interestingly, resolution and latitude of the image (with playback stopped) was much, much higher.

That was BEFORE rendering, though. After rendering it became even worse than the original settings.

So I'm sort of stabbing in the dark here, and if anyone has experience in getting maximum-quality HVX footage onto standard def DVD (via FCP & DSP) I appreciate any opinions. I can put up pics if it will help. thanks
__________________
youtube.com/benhillmedia
linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia
Benjamin Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2007, 07:45 PM   #2
Go Go Godzilla
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA
Posts: 2,739
Images: 15
Ben, (this question would have been better posted to the FCP forum, but I'll let the moderators handle it)

One of the oldest debates - which stayed mainly stagnant for a couple years when the first HDV cameras were introduced - was whether or not there was any benefit to shooting in HD vs. SD-widescreen if the final output is to widescreen-DVD. I can tell you from months of testing experience that yes, there is a very noticeable benefit. Although the general rule of thumb is to shoot and edit in the highest bitrate/codec you can prior to final MPEG-2 downconvert, if you're already using the standard DVCPRO-HD codec in your timeline you won't gain anything by transferring your clips to an uncompressed timeline if your output is to DVD.

There are 4 things you can do to make your DVD look as good as possible.

In FCP:

1) In Sequence Settings under the "Video Processing" tab look for the selection that says, "Motion Filtering Quality" set that to "best". Make this the default setting.
2) In the menu item "Sequence" submenus, "Render" and "Render All" select "full" for both. This way your timeline will fully render every motion and filter to it's maximum quality setting prior to export in compressor.


3) In DVD SP4 settings use "2-Pass VBR"; set both the bitrate and the Maximum bitrate at the highest setting possible that is allowed for your project. This is determined by how many streams of video you have, the quality settings of your audio and, whether or not you're using alternate angles. As a general rule, you don't want your bitrate higher than 5.5 and the max bitrate higher than 6.5
4) Also, select "best" for motion estimation.

These tips along with proper lighting and composition techniques for your shoots you'll be in good shape.
__________________
Producer/CEO
Reel Lane Films LLC
Robert Lane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2007, 08:00 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 670
Robert, thank you for taking the time to answer. I can say with relief that I am already doing all 4 of the things you recommend, and while I like to think my lighting and composition are pretty solid I know there's room for debate.

This is the first serious HD project I've done, so I'm probably just dealing with the shock of seeing the drop in quality from the HD display to the TV screen. But I'll get over it, after all content is what counts. Thanks again!
__________________
youtube.com/benhillmedia
linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia
Benjamin Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2007, 10:13 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami, Florida, USA
Posts: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lane
Ben, (this question would have been better posted to the FCP forum, but I'll let the moderators handle it)

One of the oldest debates - which stayed mainly stagnant for a couple years when the first HDV cameras were introduced - was whether or not there was any benefit to shooting in HD vs. SD-widescreen if the final output is to widescreen-DVD. I can tell you from months of testing experience that yes, there is a very noticeable benefit. Although the general rule of thumb is to shoot and edit in the highest bitrate/codec you can prior to final MPEG-2 downconvert, if you're already using the standard DVCPRO-HD codec in your timeline you won't gain anything by transferring your clips to an uncompressed timeline if your output is to DVD.

There are 4 things you can do to make your DVD look as good as possible.

In FCP:

1) In Sequence Settings under the "Video Processing" tab look for the selection that says, "Motion Filtering Quality" set that to "best". Make this the default setting.
2) In the menu item "Sequence" submenus, "Render" and "Render All" select "full" for both. This way your timeline will fully render every motion and filter to it's maximum quality setting prior to export in compressor.


3) In DVD SP4 settings use "2-Pass VBR"; set both the bitrate and the Maximum bitrate at the highest setting possible that is allowed for your project. This is determined by how many streams of video you have, the quality settings of your audio and, whether or not you're using alternate angles. As a general rule, you don't want your bitrate higher than 5.5 and the max bitrate higher than 6.5
4) Also, select "best" for motion estimation.

These tips along with proper lighting and composition techniques for your shoots you'll be in good shape.
Hello Robert,

Number 1 sure makes sense to me and I am trying it as I type. Number 2 I always did, but on 3 I am confuse. You first said to set your bitrate to the max and then you said not to go higher than 5.5 and max to 6.5. I personally don't trust the 2 pass compression. I set mine to constant bitrate 7.5 and 9 for my demos.

Are you saying that higher bitrates are not better than lets say 6.5?

Nmber 4 also makes sense.
__________________
Douglas Villalba - director/cinematographer/editor
Miami, Florida, USA - www.DVtvPRODUCTIONS.com
Douglas Villalba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2007, 01:02 AM   #5
Go Go Godzilla
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA
Posts: 2,739
Images: 15
Douglas,

Colleen Kelly, of Emedia Live makes a better and more concise explanation why VBR is the way to go, and my own testing agrees with this methodology. Here's an excerpt from her web article:

"There are two modes of DVD encoding, constant bit rate (CBR), and variable bit rate (VBR). When encoding in constant bit rate mode, the level of compression difficulty or motion within the video stream is irrelevant, because the same bit rate is used throughout the entire process. So a static talking-head segment of a given video project will be compressed at the same bit rate as dynamic, high-motion scenes, which does a disservice to both and makes inefficient use of the disc's overall bit budget. Most home videos are encoded in CBR because it is quick and less complicated. (Most entry-level tools don't even include VBR encoders.) So the quality of the final product is consequently compromised. According to DVD author Richard Diercks, "No professional video should be encoded in constant bit rate (CBR), even if bandwidth is high. Our experience is that variable bit rate (VBR) always looks better."

In variable bit rate encoding, the bit rate is adjusted according to the compression difficulty of the frame sequence. When an encoder encounters an inactive frame sequence, it will not allocate as many bits to the scene. "This allows the encoder to produce difficult-to-compress sequences like football scenes at higher data rates, say 5.5Mbps, which translates to higher quality video," writes EMedia contributing editor Jan Ozer in his Peach Pit Press book, Sonic MyDVD 5 for Windows Visual QuickStart Guide. For serious authors, VBR is a must-have feature."
__________________
Producer/CEO
Reel Lane Films LLC

Last edited by Robert Lane; January 26th, 2007 at 08:49 AM.
Robert Lane is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic P2HD / DVCPRO HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:08 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network