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Old June 5th, 2007, 01:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Mario View Post
But what im talking about is not 1080i.... i want to know if they shoot 1080p
for axample, the hvx200 does not shoot 1080p at 24p...
Do you have an HVX? I have thousands of clips on my website that
are 1080 24p shot with the HVX...
You shoot 1080 24PA and remove the pulldown when you import.
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Old June 5th, 2007, 01:49 PM   #17
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Yes.. but are they 1080p??????
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Old June 5th, 2007, 02:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Mario View Post
Yes.. but are they 1080p??????
Google is a great way to search this forum. Look what I found.

Barry Green answers your question technically here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...028#post321028

Jan Crittenden answers more consisely here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45796
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Old June 5th, 2007, 05:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Angel Mario View Post
Yes.. but are they 1080p??????
From what I understand, since the chips on the camera are progressive, the image the camera shoots is 1080p and is then saved in an interlaced stream. In the US spec for HD, there is no 1080p format, therefore there's no point for the camera to offer it in your final product since you could not broadcast this footage.

However, the image is progressive and then saved to an interlaced stream. Barry Green said something about re-combining the two interlaced frames back into the original progressive frame without quality loss. Not sure on how that is accomplished, but thhere you go.

it's more about the fact you're trying to film in a format that does not exist as part of any spec.
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Old June 5th, 2007, 08:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Mario View Post
Yes.. but are they 1080p??????
Yes. Several people have already confirmed that you can indeed get true 1080p with the HVX by way of progressive scan CCDs and advanced pulldown.

I think the only thing that will make you a believer is to get your hands on an HVX and try it for yourself.
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Old June 5th, 2007, 11:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Mario View Post
for axample, the hvx200 does not shoot 1080p at 24p...
Of course it does.
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Old June 7th, 2007, 12:04 PM   #22
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Barry,

May I ask a fundamental question?

1080i - the "i" here stands for interlaced mode
1080p - the 'p' here stands for progressive scan mode

24p/25p - what does the 'p' stands for?

Thanks.
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Old June 7th, 2007, 01:05 PM   #23
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Some people are never satisfied. They want to hear their absolute truth or they will keep on asking until they hear what they want to hear.

If Barry Green tells me the HVX does 1080/24p knowing that he wrote a book on it and Panasonic used for their promotion, I'll take his word on it.
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Old June 7th, 2007, 04:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TingSern Wong View Post
Barry,

May I ask a fundamental question?

1080i - the "i" here stands for interlaced mode
1080p - the 'p' here stands for progressive scan mode

24p/25p - what does the 'p' stands for?

Thanks.

24p = 24 progressively-scanned frames per second.
25p = 25 progressively-scanned frames per second.
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Old June 7th, 2007, 06:00 PM   #25
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I am editing several projects - 2 in 1080 24p and 3 in 720 24p
The FCP timeline is 23.98 fps....
All the clips are DVCPRO HD shot with the HVX200 -
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Old June 7th, 2007, 08:50 PM   #26
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Barry,

Would it sound contradictory if a camera does 1080i at 24p? I mean, how does the sensor do 1080 interlaced, and still gives you a progressive scanned 24 frames per second output? And why is there no 720i (but only 720p)? Thank you for answering my basic question.
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Old June 7th, 2007, 09:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TingSern Wong View Post
Barry,

Would it sound contradictory if a camera does 1080i at 24p?
It does sound contradictory, which is why we have so much confusion going on here.

So let's clarify one thing first:
Quote:
how does the sensor do 1080 interlaced
The HVX sensor *never* does interlaced. Not at 1080, not at 480, not at 576. The HVX sensor is always progressive, always. When you put the camera in 1080/24p mode, it scans its sensor at 24 frames per second, progressively.

(so how does it do 1080/60i you ask? It actually scans at 1080/60p, and splits the progressive frames into fields for recording as 1080/60i, or downrezzes it to standard-def for 480/60i, but it's actually running at 1080/60P!)

Quote:
still gives you a progressive scanned 24 frames per second output?
Well that's the thing. There is no 1080/24p recording format, there's only 1080/60i. So what it does is the same process that every hollywood movie undergoes when being broadcast: the 24 frames get split up into fields and recorded as interlaced fields, because the recording formats are all interlaced. Even HDCAM 24p is actually split into fields and recorded as 48i. In the case of DVCPRO-HD, 2:3 pulldown is used and the recorded information is recorded as 1080/60i. But the footage is 24p. It's just being "carried" in a 60i transport stream.

Once the NLE gets ahold of the footage, it "un-does" that pulldown step and restores the footage to its original 24p state.

Quote:
And why is there no 720i (but only 720p)? Thank you for answering my basic question.
Because (to quote the classic film "The Waterboy") "Interlaced is the debbil." Interlaced video is an archaic holdover from the first days of television broadcast. The 720 standard was created to once and forever eliminate interlace from our lives. 720 is progressive at all times, and there will never be an interlaced version of 720.

Hopefully 1080/60i is the last interlaced format we'll ever see. The future should be progressive at all times, and hopefully the manufacturers, broadcasters, and standards bodies will all get on the same page from here on out...
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Old June 8th, 2007, 09:53 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Green View Post
The HVX sensor *never* does interlaced. . There is no 1080/24p recording format, ..The 720 standard was created to once and forever eliminate interlace from our lives.
I see. Well, that explains a lot. It does, although I sometimes feel in these discussions about HD that more faith is required than in being 'born again.'

For example, after months and months of hearing how, I thought it was being said, that 1080/24p (as you say) was the Holy Grail of Video it almost sounds like shocking heresy to hear you declare it doesn't exist!!

But I believe you. I now believe 1080p/24fps does not exist. I believe it pulls down and travels on an interlaced stream.

I also believe I should think more about doing video in 720p/60fps and that this is not only a current broadcast standard but that in the glorious future, on Plasma TV, or Apple TV, or MTV that this format could be 'transubstantiated' to whatever Future Greatness we evolve.

Wouldn't that be a good bet? 720p/60fps....or, as the experts like to say:
720/60p.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 05:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Kay View Post
I see. Well, that explains a lot. It does, although I sometimes feel in these discussions about HD that more faith is required than in being 'born again.'

For example, after months and months of hearing how, I thought it was being said, that 1080/24p (as you say) was the Holy Grail of Video it almost sounds like shocking heresy to hear you declare it doesn't exist!!

But I believe you. I now believe 1080p/24fps does not exist. I believe it pulls down and travels on an interlaced stream.

I also believe I should think more about doing video in 720p/60fps and that this is not only a current broadcast standard but that in the glorious future, on Plasma TV, or Apple TV, or MTV that this format could be 'transubstantiated' to whatever Future Greatness we evolve.

Wouldn't that be a good bet? 720p/60fps....or, as the experts like to say:
720/60p.
Why stop at 720 60p then? Why not go for 1080 60p or higher? 1080p doesn't exist because our current system in the U.S. is NTSC, and there isn't enough bandwidth for the higher resolution. But, who knows? Maybe with more efficient codecs, more resolution can be squeezed in the narrow NTSC video bandwidth.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 07:21 AM   #30
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i think what is being confused here is the fact that the HVX does progressive (obviousy) but uses an interlaced stream for transport (2:3 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown or 2:2 in Pal land)...

thats the fundumental difference between 720pn and 1080p, being that 1080p is progressive but requires a pulldown service to remove redundant frames
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