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Old July 28th, 2007, 10:05 PM   #1
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Anybody work with Kleigl Bros Fresnels?

Inspired by EFPLighting's lighting setups, I converted a bedroom to a studio. In doing so, I recognized the value of lights that don't spill and that can be focused. I picked up two Kliegl 3604 Fresnels so I can put my Lowel units back into my mobile kit. The Kliegl Bros looked so "classic", I wasn't sure if I should use them or put them on display.

Has anyone worked with these relics? Any leads on which modern day barndoors and gel holders are easiest to adapt to the Kliegl Bros units? I'm handy...looking forward to the challenge.

TIA

Last edited by Les Wilson; July 28th, 2007 at 10:16 PM. Reason: fix misspelling of Kliegl
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Old July 31st, 2007, 10:25 PM   #2
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Wow - haven't heard of Kliegl lights in decades! Many decades! I think at one time "Klieg(sp) light" was a generic term for any film lighting - sort of like "coke" is for any kind of soda.

Have you got any photos?

Aside from old memories, I don't have much real value to add to the discussion
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Old August 1st, 2007, 06:38 AM   #3
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I used an old Kliegl Brothers 650w that I got off of ebay 2 years ago as my first fresnel I converted to a metal halide/HMI type unit. I enclosed some pictures of it below. Not sure what year they went out of business but they were very big in television studios and of course theatres too.
Attached Thumbnails
Anybody work with Kleigl Bros Fresnels?-our150wfresnelcm.jpg   Anybody work with Kleigl Bros Fresnels?-001-klieglguineapig.jpg  

Anybody work with Kleigl Bros Fresnels?-002-fresnelinnards.jpg   Anybody work with Kleigl Bros Fresnels?-009a-5200kdblend2.jpg  

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Old August 1st, 2007, 07:48 AM   #4
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They started making lights back in 1896!

As far as your Fresnel goes, it uses a 500w lamp, and has a spread of 10 degrees at spot and 54 degrees at full flood.
If you can find one, the gel holder is part # 13604 color frame.

You might just measure the front flair, and purchase barn doors that fit the size.


Good Luck!
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Old August 1st, 2007, 03:42 PM   #5
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Well, if you do decide to put them on display, you won't be alone. There is an entire group of Kliegl collectors at www.klieglbros.com. The Universal Stage Lighting Company went out of business in the early 1990s after a very long decline. I don't think they were much of a force in the stage lighting business past the mid-late 1970s.
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Old August 1st, 2007, 04:07 PM   #6
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Yes, now I believe you're right this was a 500w unit not 650.

If you have a unit and you measure the lens and then the accessory holder, you may find there are plenty of barndoor units for sale on ebay that may work. The barndoors on the unit pictured above did not come with the fresnel. I bought them afterwards, in another ebay sale and based on some educated guesses and it worked out fine.

It's not a perfect match but it fits and slides in there pretty well with just a bit of extra push necessary. These things are usually sold in terms of lens size but you should measure the distance horizonatally and vertically between the accessory holders on your light and then double check with the seller that his barndoor unit will work with yours by sending them the measurements and asking them to confirm that it will work.
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Old August 3rd, 2007, 08:17 PM   #7
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My lights haven't arrived but when they do, I think the measurement will enable me to find substitutes.

Thanks.
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Old August 3rd, 2007, 08:20 PM   #8
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You will. Just be patient and keep watching ebay with search for "barndoor", "barndoors", "barn door", and "barn doors". No consistency in how people list them so using all the keywords there will help. Then look at the size the post in inches and reconfirm with them afterwards for exact measurements.
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Old August 3rd, 2007, 10:24 PM   #9
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Another question about these lights. They are 500w or 650w depending on the bulb. As far as I can tell, they use G9.5 base bulbs. All I could find were 500w and up bulbs with that base. I don't know much about bulb standards. Is there any way to lower the output of these lights with a compatible but lower wattage bulb or must I just use a dimmer?
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Old August 3rd, 2007, 11:50 PM   #10
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As long as you can find a bulb that has the same measurements and uses the same bulb but is lower wattage, no reason it won't work. But the measurements are important. The brightest part of the bulb or "LCL" measurement as its known should come out right in the center of the mirror. Check to make sure that the LCL distance is the same for your lower wattage bulb as it is for the 500w bulb and it should work fine.
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Old August 7th, 2007, 10:22 PM   #11
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I'm not having much luck with replacement bulbs at a lower wattage. The unit came with a 500w EHD bulb which my research shows has a G9.5 base.

http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b...500w~ansi.html

Everything I find with that base is 500w or higher with one 400w exception.

Is there another base that is compatible with a G9.5 socket that may give me 300w or lower?

TIA
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Old August 27th, 2007, 11:20 PM   #12
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Kliegal eh ?

I was LD in a TV station in NY 7or 8 years ago. for a show, a guest walks in, looks up and sees the name on a few lights hanging in the ceiling. Now 90% of them are new arri's but I'd left a few of the 1K's around for just in case. They say, hey, my uncle used to own the company !

they are antiques. maybe nice for decoration, but new lights are more effecient and those old lights aren't worth the trouble.If the wires have this white fabric like insulation, thats asbestos. bad stuff, not worth messing with.
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Old September 15th, 2007, 05:43 PM   #13
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This is a followup posting to share what I've been able to do with these lights. I appreciate them as beautiful well crafted fixtures and am glad to show them off as a tribute to the great American Company and US workers that crafted them. I found no reason why they couldn't be both functional and decorative.

The electrical had no asbestos. Also, I got no response from the Klieglbros hobbiest website when I asked about possible sources for accessories so I set out to craft my own.

I wanted one of my two "museum" pieces to be a hair light so I needed it to use lower wattage bulbs. I ended up choosing an E11 base where I can use a range of lamps from 100w to 250w. The E11 base requires roughly a 1/2" boost to get the lamp filament positioned correctly. I did this with a solid piece of aluminum spacer that I tapped for the screws that mount the E11 base to the spacer and also tapped for the screws that mount the spacer to the focus sled.

All said and done, this re-lamping took about 5 hours including design time. The fixture is not modified and I can put the original base back on the sled just as it came from the factory (including it's screws). In my home studio, I have limited ceiling height so I mount the fixture up side down making the focus control easy to access.

Barn doors were much easier. About two hours of shop time once I settled on the design which took many hours. While they don't rotate, they do attach without any modification to the fixture whatsoever. To do it, I used a Lowel DP barn door frame and mounted the frame to the fixture using the Kliegl Bros screws that hold the housing together. This was done with some aluminum angle "iron" that extends the barn door frame down to the fixture housing screws. The 2" angle iron slips inside the Lowel frame where I pop riveted the two together. I put angle iron on 2 opposing corners and simply slipped the housing screw thru the angle iron. One small glitch to this design is that the lens door needs space to open on the side. Fortunately, the Lowel frame is wider than the fixture by exactly the right amount to accommodate this. Since it's a little wide, there is a 1/2" spacer between the angle iron and the fixture on the hinge side.

I love these fixtures. Here's some pics:
Attached Thumbnails
Anybody work with Kleigl Bros Fresnels?-klieglbros_sml.jpg   Anybody work with Kleigl Bros Fresnels?-klieglmods2.jpg  

Anybody work with Kleigl Bros Fresnels?-klieglmods1.jpg  
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Old September 15th, 2007, 08:30 PM   #14
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Interesting. Were they silver like that before or did you sandblast the old paint off them? Normally all those older models were powder coated black for the obvious reasons of controlling unwanted reflections.
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Old September 15th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #15
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They are chrome. I think that's what attracted me to them in the first place.
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