Cool Flos from Kaiser??

David Tamés · August 28th, 2007, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

Pretty good deal for $379. a key and fill I guess. For an interview, what would be a good hair light to match this set up?

For a hair light, or back light, you're going to need something other than a florescent unit, you're going to need light you can control, focus, and cut, and therefore you need a quality of light like direct sunlight, perfect for accent and back lights, and that's what a Fresnel offers that a florescent can't. Look into adding some Fresnel instruments to your kit. Start with a 300W and a 150W instrument to compliment your soft source. I'm partial to the Arri Fresnels, not only for their build quality, but when I need more instruments for s specific shoot it's what the rental house has.

Brian Luce · August 28th, 2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Tames

For a hair light, or back light, you're going to need something other than a florescent unit, you're going to need light you can control, focus, and cut, and therefore you need a quality of light like direct sunlight, perfect for accent and back lights, and that's what a Fresnel offers that a florescent can't. Look into adding some Fresnel instruments to your kit. Start with a 300W and a 150W instrument to compliment your soft source. I'm partial to the Arri Fresnels, not only for their build quality, but when I need more instruments for s specific shoot it's what the rental house has.

Okay but isn't it problematic to mix different color temps? How does that work out?

David Tamés · August 28th, 2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

Okay but isn't it problematic to mix different color temps? How does that work out?

I'm usually not mixing color temperatures when working with fluorescent lighting instruments, since they can be fitted with either tungsten or daylight balanced lamps. When the fluorescent units are fitted with daylight lamps, I put 1/2 CTB or full CTB (depending on creative approach) on the Fresnels to match. And since the Fresnels are more efficient than open face lights (since the light is focused where you want it to go) the effect of CTB gel on them is a little less severe.

CTB = "Color Temperature Blue" gel, used to convert 3200K Tungsten sources to 5500K Daylight.

Eric Lagerlof · August 29th, 2007, 10:45 PM

For hair and rim lighting, I agree with Dave, focusable lights are a must. They also come in handy for such things as creating 'venetian blind' patterns on background walls, etc. And various nets and flags/cutters, along with C-stands and gobo arms, while not as often discussed as the lighting instruments themselves, are very important.

I liked the idea of getting the daylight fluoresscents because they are bright enough to use in some daylight situations, when you're not fighting direct sunlight, which can be great for office interview situations. And as Dave suggested, CTB on a tungsten instrument can match color temps just fine. OTOH, Indoor tungsten situations, I'm tempted to Gel the fluorescents with CTO, orange, to bring the daylight lamps down to 3200 degrees. They are bright enough where in 'indoor' situations, the CTO shouldn't dim them too much.

BTW, mixing color temps can work well too. With brunettes and redheads, I use to light faces with standard 110 volt tungstens and use 240 volt tungstens for the hair lights. The lamp was, in essence, dimmed to 50% and created a beautiful and rich red/orange light. Using a gel, being much flatter in color, just wouldn't match the beauty of that 240 volt lamp.

Anyway, I ramble...

Winston Ashley · November 6th, 2007, 09:36 PM

Any one use these kaeser lights with 240v power? I want to take these overseas to Australia.

Links to the lights:
http://www.skaeser.com/servlet/Detail?no=454

Picture with the back of the unit. it says that it can go 110-240v but can it really?

Link to the back picture
http://images.andale.com/f2/110/104/...arvier_4lt.jpg

what'd you think? Will it travel to 240v?

Richard Andrewski · November 7th, 2007, 05:44 PM

What they mean by that rating is the sockets and input of the fixture can be any voltage in that range. This is a universal line voltage input solution like a fresnel which also could be any voltage, but just the bulb changes based on which voltage is actually going in.

Thus, the real limit is the CFL bulb inside. There are practically no universal voltage CFL bulbs out there because the ballast in the base is really abbreviated in the name of keeping it "compact" as in the name CFL. Thus, you'd have to change out your bulb from 110v to 220v models when you go to a different country. Just like you would for a fresnel. So that rating can be very misleading if you don't understand the caveats that go with it.

Shiv Kumar · November 11th, 2007, 08:33 AM

Eric,

I have the cool flo lights you're talking about. I've used them on a few shoots out of town so they've been transported a few times. The build quality is decent and they look pretty good in terms of what a customer may think of when they see them.

They probably won't last 10 years but the light quality is very good. These are the ones I have

http://photoalbum.matlus.com//AlbumView.aspx/6

I used them mainly for interview kinds of videos.

Eric Lagerlof · November 12th, 2007, 01:19 AM

Shiv, I was suprised to see this thread revived. Yeah, the Kaisers' are pretty decent lights. A couple of thoughtful touches; the two mounting ?clamps? for mounting portrait or landscape and the bank switches. The biggest problem is that you have to remove all the lamps to transport them w/o breakage. I'm trying to get something like the separators you see in wine bottle cartons so I can leave the lamps in between gigs.

I was a little suprised by some of the somewhat negative reactions to these "unknown" lights. I kind of understand-I've watched my Lowells deteriorate over the years, especially the stands.

OTOH, the light's wraparound softness is lovely, much nicer than the average chimera. I have not seen any odd color spikes with these lights, but I've been white balancing to an on-set white card, not using a 3200 degree preset.

Shiv Kumar · November 12th, 2007, 09:18 AM

Eric,

I don't have experience with any other softboxes so I didn't know if some of the "features" were standard or unique to these lights :).

Yes, I find the softness of these lights very nice and they make lighting the the talent very easy.

I still have the boxes in which the bulbs came in and use them to transsport the bulbs. The lights themselves are pretty large when assembled and so I disassemble them completely for storage and transport. I've bought one of the large Pelican transport cases http://pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1780t so all my lights, bulbs, stands/booms etc. go into this case.

Winston Ashley · November 19th, 2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Andrewski

What they mean by that rating is the sockets and input of the fixture can be any voltage in that range. This is a universal line voltage input solution like a fresnel which also could be any voltage, but just the bulb changes based on which voltage is actually going in.

Thus, the real limit is the CFL bulb inside. There are practically no universal voltage CFL bulbs out there because the ballast in the base is really abbreviated in the name of keeping it "compact" as in the name CFL. Thus, you'd have to change out your bulb from 110v to 220v models when you go to a different country. Just like you would for a fresnel. So that rating can be very misleading if you don't understand the caveats that go with it.

Ahh... ("Ding" Light bulb going on) I opened the fixture up and its a direct wire to the bulb! You're right. thanks for the advice on that.

Bill Pryor · December 9th, 2007, 11:45 AM

This seems to be an old thread that has been resurrected, so I'll throw my thoughts in.

I've been lighting lots of interviews with Lowel Caselights ever since they arrived on the market, but they belong to another company, and I am going to buy some fluorescents of my own very soon. After hours of reading posts on all the boards I've decided to go with Richard's Cool Lights ( http://www.coollights.biz ).

I was all set to go with some equivalent-looking fluorescents from PC lighting but on the DVX user board, that guy got such rotten reviews that I scratched him off my list. There are also cheap softbox flos from many other sites and they all look pretty much the same, so it's a matter of the reputability of the dealer, in my opinion.

For several days I've been trying to figure out which Cool Lights I want, and I think I've about decided on one CL-455 and two CL-255's. And then I'm considering his new 150 watt HMI fresnel that's only 400 bucks. It uses a different type of lamp than the normal HMI but you can get it in 5400K, and the lamp is dirt cheap.

He also has a very nice softbox that uses a single 200 watt 5500 or 3200 fluorescent folded tube lamp. To me this looks like a better thing than the other softboxes that use multiple twisty bulbs. Two hundred watts is significantly more than the output of one 2-lamp CL-255. I'd assume the softbox reflector might not reflect as efficiently as the CL-255, but with the extra wattage, that setup might be at least the same and it's definitely cheap enough to try out.

Richard also has a line of what he's calling the "portable" fluorescents, that look a lot like the Kinos. They come in 2 and 4-lamp setups and are significantly lighter in weight than the 455 and 255 series. I could go with those too, though they are a bit pricier. I'm attracted to the reflecting barn doors of the heavier 255/455 lights because I've used those with Caselights. You adjust the barn door just right and the bulbs reflect from them too, giving you just a bit more output when needed. Of course I guess you could attach aluminum foil to the barn doors of the lighter weight fixtures and do about the same thing.

Another alternative might be to go with three of the 150 watt fresnel HMIs and one of the softboxes. The HMI fixture is the same as his 650 watt tungsten light, which looks very similar to Altman 650 watt fresnels I've used a lot and supposedly puts out about the same amount of light. You want to soften the fresnels, just attach diffusion gel to the barn doors the way you would with an open face light; to keep the light sharper, cut a gel to fit in front of the lens.

My interest in these fluorescents and HMIs is that I prefer lighting with daylight when possible, even in the studio. The cameras I use seem to all look better under daylight than they do tungsten.

Marcus Marchesseault · December 9th, 2007, 01:49 PM

"It uses a different type of lamp than the normal HMI but you can get it in 5400K, and the lamp is dirt cheap."

You might want clarification from Richard on that. I think you can even get replacements directly from B&H. You also might want to find out if these lights are hot re-strike. I don't think they are but that may not differ from other manufacturers in this wattage. Unfortunately, these are not in stock but that is supposed to change next week.

About the lamp from coollights.biz:

"However, if you should decide, for whatever reason you would rather use an Osram, Phillips or GE as your replacement in the future, you can. All the bulbs we are using are available from a wide variety of sources and follow the standards for each particular family used."

Bill Pryor · December 9th, 2007, 05:31 PM

I'm fairly certain this one is not hot re-strike, but I can live with that for the cost.

Kenneth Johnson · December 9th, 2007, 06:57 PM

Richard Andrewski has a similar instrument at CoolLights

I have 2 of these and they work great.

ken

Eric Lagerlof · December 9th, 2007, 10:43 PM

The lights I got from Kaeser are a 9 light, spiral CFL instrument with a softbox-optional- in front. The spirals are a pain, because unlike Andrewskis' bar lamps, which can be transported easily and safely within the instrument, the spirals have to be removed to keep them from busting. If I had to do it over again, I'd get Richards' lights for that reason alone.

Having said that, the lights I have have three switches for three banks of lights, each bank adding a stop. Very Handy. The light with softbox is gorgeous. I'm not displeased.

Your list sounds good. It's always handy to have some hard light along with the soft. A 150/300 watt backlight would probably be handy as well as the larger HMI fresnel. And of course, some CTB and CTO. I'm looking at some of the same lights, the CDM 150 and the 150 and 300 watt tungsten fresnels.

Good luck with your new kit.

November 6th, 2007, 09:36 PM	#20
Winston Ashley Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 81	1200 watt cool lights 240v? Any one use these kaeser lights with 240v power? I want to take these overseas to Australia. Links to the lights: http://www.skaeser.com/servlet/Detail?no=454 Picture with the back of the unit. it says that it can go 110-240v but can it really? Link to the back picture http://images.andale.com/f2/110/104/...arvier_4lt.jpg what'd you think? Will it travel to 240v?

November 7th, 2007, 05:44 PM	#21
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	What they mean by that rating is the sockets and input of the fixture can be any voltage in that range. This is a universal line voltage input solution like a fresnel which also could be any voltage, but just the bulb changes based on which voltage is actually going in. Thus, the real limit is the CFL bulb inside. There are practically no universal voltage CFL bulbs out there because the ballast in the base is really abbreviated in the name of keeping it "compact" as in the name CFL. Thus, you'd have to change out your bulb from 110v to 220v models when you go to a different country. Just like you would for a fresnel. So that rating can be very misleading if you don't understand the caveats that go with it. __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz

November 11th, 2007, 08:33 AM	#22
Shiv Kumar Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gainesville, VA, USA Posts: 327	Eric, I have the cool flo lights you're talking about. I've used them on a few shoots out of town so they've been transported a few times. The build quality is decent and they look pretty good in terms of what a customer may think of when they see them. They probably won't last 10 years but the light quality is very good. These are the ones I have http://photoalbum.matlus.com//AlbumView.aspx/6 I used them mainly for interview kinds of videos. __________________ Canon XH-A1, Libec LS-55M, Letus Extreme, Steadicam Merlin, PPro CS3

November 12th, 2007, 09:18 AM	#24
Shiv Kumar Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gainesville, VA, USA Posts: 327	Eric, I don't have experience with any other softboxes so I didn't know if some of the "features" were standard or unique to these lights :). Yes, I find the softness of these lights very nice and they make lighting the the talent very easy. I still have the boxes in which the bulbs came in and use them to transsport the bulbs. The lights themselves are pretty large when assembled and so I disassemble them completely for storage and transport. I've bought one of the large Pelican transport cases http://pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1780t so all my lights, bulbs, stands/booms etc. go into this case. __________________ Canon XH-A1, Libec LS-55M, Letus Extreme, Steadicam Merlin, PPro CS3

August 29th, 2007, 10:45 PM	#19
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	For hair and rim lighting, I agree with Dave, focusable lights are a must. They also come in handy for such things as creating 'venetian blind' patterns on background walls, etc. And various nets and flags/cutters, along with C-stands and gobo arms, while not as often discussed as the lighting instruments themselves, are very important. I liked the idea of getting the daylight fluoresscents because they are bright enough to use in some daylight situations, when you're not fighting direct sunlight, which can be great for office interview situations. And as Dave suggested, CTB on a tungsten instrument can match color temps just fine. OTOH, Indoor tungsten situations, I'm tempted to Gel the fluorescents with CTO, orange, to bring the daylight lamps down to 3200 degrees. They are bright enough where in 'indoor' situations, the CTO shouldn't dim them too much. BTW, mixing color temps can work well too. With brunettes and redheads, I use to light faces with standard 110 volt tungstens and use 240 volt tungstens for the hair lights. The lamp was, in essence, dimmed to 50% and created a beautiful and rich red/orange light. Using a gel, being much flatter in color, just wouldn't match the beauty of that 240 volt lamp. Anyway, I ramble...

November 12th, 2007, 01:19 AM	#23
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	Shiv, I was suprised to see this thread revived. Yeah, the Kaisers' are pretty decent lights. A couple of thoughtful touches; the two mounting ?clamps? for mounting portrait or landscape and the bank switches. The biggest problem is that you have to remove all the lamps to transport them w/o breakage. I'm trying to get something like the separators you see in wine bottle cartons so I can leave the lamps in between gigs. I was a little suprised by some of the somewhat negative reactions to these "unknown" lights. I kind of understand-I've watched my Lowells deteriorate over the years, especially the stands. OTOH, the light's wraparound softness is lovely, much nicer than the average chimera. I have not seen any odd color spikes with these lights, but I've been white balancing to an on-set white card, not using a 3200 degree preset.

December 9th, 2007, 11:45 AM	#26
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	This seems to be an old thread that has been resurrected, so I'll throw my thoughts in. I've been lighting lots of interviews with Lowel Caselights ever since they arrived on the market, but they belong to another company, and I am going to buy some fluorescents of my own very soon. After hours of reading posts on all the boards I've decided to go with Richard's Cool Lights ( http://www.coollights.biz ). I was all set to go with some equivalent-looking fluorescents from PC lighting but on the DVX user board, that guy got such rotten reviews that I scratched him off my list. There are also cheap softbox flos from many other sites and they all look pretty much the same, so it's a matter of the reputability of the dealer, in my opinion. For several days I've been trying to figure out which Cool Lights I want, and I think I've about decided on one CL-455 and two CL-255's. And then I'm considering his new 150 watt HMI fresnel that's only 400 bucks. It uses a different type of lamp than the normal HMI but you can get it in 5400K, and the lamp is dirt cheap. He also has a very nice softbox that uses a single 200 watt 5500 or 3200 fluorescent folded tube lamp. To me this looks like a better thing than the other softboxes that use multiple twisty bulbs. Two hundred watts is significantly more than the output of one 2-lamp CL-255. I'd assume the softbox reflector might not reflect as efficiently as the CL-255, but with the extra wattage, that setup might be at least the same and it's definitely cheap enough to try out. Richard also has a line of what he's calling the "portable" fluorescents, that look a lot like the Kinos. They come in 2 and 4-lamp setups and are significantly lighter in weight than the 455 and 255 series. I could go with those too, though they are a bit pricier. I'm attracted to the reflecting barn doors of the heavier 255/455 lights because I've used those with Caselights. You adjust the barn door just right and the bulbs reflect from them too, giving you just a bit more output when needed. Of course I guess you could attach aluminum foil to the barn doors of the lighter weight fixtures and do about the same thing. Another alternative might be to go with three of the 150 watt fresnel HMIs and one of the softboxes. The HMI fixture is the same as his 650 watt tungsten light, which looks very similar to Altman 650 watt fresnels I've used a lot and supposedly puts out about the same amount of light. You want to soften the fresnels, just attach diffusion gel to the barn doors the way you would with an open face light; to keep the light sharper, cut a gel to fit in front of the lens. My interest in these fluorescents and HMIs is that I prefer lighting with daylight when possible, even in the studio. The cameras I use seem to all look better under daylight than they do tungsten.

December 9th, 2007, 01:49 PM	#27
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	"It uses a different type of lamp than the normal HMI but you can get it in 5400K, and the lamp is dirt cheap." You might want clarification from Richard on that. I think you can even get replacements directly from B&H. You also might want to find out if these lights are hot re-strike. I don't think they are but that may not differ from other manufacturers in this wattage. Unfortunately, these are not in stock but that is supposed to change next week. About the lamp from coollights.biz: "However, if you should decide, for whatever reason you would rather use an Osram, Phillips or GE as your replacement in the future, you can. All the bulbs we are using are available from a wide variety of sources and follow the standards for each particular family used."

December 9th, 2007, 05:31 PM	#28
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I'm fairly certain this one is not hot re-strike, but I can live with that for the cost.

December 9th, 2007, 06:57 PM	#29
Kenneth Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida Posts: 70	Richard Andrewski has a similar instrument at CoolLights I have 2 of these and they work great. ken

December 9th, 2007, 10:43 PM	#30
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	The lights I got from Kaeser are a 9 light, spiral CFL instrument with a softbox-optional- in front. The spirals are a pain, because unlike Andrewskis' bar lamps, which can be transported easily and safely within the instrument, the spirals have to be removed to keep them from busting. If I had to do it over again, I'd get Richards' lights for that reason alone. Having said that, the lights I have have three switches for three banks of lights, each bank adding a stop. Very Handy. The light with softbox is gorgeous. I'm not displeased. Your list sounds good. It's always handy to have some hard light along with the soft. A 150/300 watt backlight would probably be handy as well as the larger HMI fresnel. And of course, some CTB and CTO. I'm looking at some of the same lights, the CDM 150 and the 150 and 300 watt tungsten fresnels. Good luck with your new kit.