All Black Background Issues? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Photon Management
Shine an ever-loving light on you.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 13th, 2008, 08:11 PM   #16
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Plotkin View Post
Check out http://www.sewwhatinc.com/fab_duvetyne.php . According to the website, they consider commando cloth to be a heavier (16 oz.) version of duvetyne (8 or 12 oz.) that's more durable.
Jonathan:

Great find, thank you.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2008, 02:10 PM   #17
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,259
Another ?, does having an all black background effect post color correction? I'm planing on using the same backdrop for filming in different people's homes. So the lighting will vary at least a little and the subjects will vary a lot.

Nonetheless, I want the background to always be black, even after correcting the color. I could see how global color changes could be problematic b/c the black would no longer be black. But perhaps it's easier to "lift" the subject off a uniformly black background and correct their color only? I really don't know.

I'm still very new to all this. So sorry if some of the ?'s seem too basic. THANKS MUCH!
Peter Moretti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2008, 02:41 PM   #18
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
Another ?, does having an all black background effect post color correction? I'm planing on using the same backdrop for filming in different people's homes. So the lighting will vary at least a little and the subjects will vary a lot.

Nonetheless, I want the background to always be black, even after correcting the color. I could see how global color changes could be problematic b/c the black would no longer be black. But perhaps it's easier to "lift" the subject off a uniformly black background and correct their color only? I really don't know.

I'm still very new to all this. So sorry if some of the ?'s seem too basic. THANKS MUCH!
Peter:

I edited a three minute promo yesterday that I shot in Philadelphia last week. I had to intercut with some different footage I shot there in January. The client requested black background for all of the interviews I shot. I had a total of 12 different interviews shot in three locations, all against black.

It was extremely easy to color correct them and there was no problem with consistency. All I did was change framing for each subject and flip the key and side I favored them to for about half of the interviews so I wouldn't have all left side or all right side for the talent.

What you are proposing to do here is about as easy as it gets. To me, shooting black BG is a cop out, I am sick of doing it but when the client can only provide a bare, ugly room, I am traveling and working alone with usually about 30 minutes to unpack and setup everything and I don't have time to create or enhance a decent looking environment, green screen with the ReflecMedia Chroma Flex or black are the only two logical choices.

I have done some black BGs where I composited in pictures, other footage and graphics on the side opposite the talent and that can work nicely too, especially in 16:9.

Good luck,

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2008, 08:49 PM   #19
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Shenzhen, China
Posts: 781
Rosebrand.com is a great place to get these kinds of fabrics. As Jonathan noted, there is apparently a difference between commando cloth and dyvetyn. It appears the commando cloth is a 16oz grade and the duvetyn is a 8 oz grade:

http://www.rosebrand.com/subcategory...h-duvetyn.aspx
__________________
Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114
http://www.coollights.biz
Richard Andrewski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 05:30 PM   #20
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wurzburg, Germany
Posts: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
Another ?, does having an all black background effect post color correction? I'm planing on using the same backdrop for filming in different people's homes. So the lighting will vary at least a little and the subjects will vary a lot.

Nonetheless, I want the background to always be black, even after correcting the color. I could see how global color changes could be problematic b/c the black would no longer be black. But perhaps it's easier to "lift" the subject off a uniformly black background and correct their color only? I really don't know.

I'm still very new to all this. So sorry if some of the ?'s seem too basic. THANKS MUCH!
You can always lower the master black in cc and make everything black that is nearly black. This will not much affect any other part of the frame. If you do all your filming with nearly the same kind of "almost black" in the background, you'll be able to achieve the same look in cc.
Heiko Saele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 06:16 PM   #21
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Andrewski View Post
Rosebrand.com is a great place to get these kinds of fabrics. As Jonathan noted, there is apparently a difference between commando cloth and dyvetyn. It appears the commando cloth is a 16oz grade and the duvetyn is a 8 oz grade:

http://www.rosebrand.com/subcategory...h-duvetyn.aspx
If it were me, and I had to transport a LOT of this cloth, I would go for the Duvetyne, simply because the heavier cloth would be a PITA to suspend with A-Frame clamps and or from C-stands. If it were a studio situation or I had proper crew and grip, the Commando cloth will last longer and also function as sound deadening better.

I buy the Duvetyne from FilmTools. A 5' x 200' roll ran me somewhere around $250.00, I think. Wider pieces are more convenient, I always have to do at least two layers to get floor to ceiling but the wider stuff costs a lot more, is heavier and more of a hassle to fold up.

Best,

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #22
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank
Posts: 1,811
Rose brand has 78 inch 12 oz. duvetyne for $9.25 yd.:
http://www.rosebrand.com/product217/...2526%2bDuvetyn
(click on the "View Complete Pricing Table" link on the right in the tan box)

118 inches wide, 8 oz. (needs to layers if there is light behind) is $9 a yard. That's almost 10 feet wide.
http://www.emu.com/products/welcome.asp?category=505&

Other theatrical suppliers probably have similar.

Depending on your setup, you might consider rolling the edge in wide hem (3 layers?) and putting some grommets in to you can quickly tie up the cloth using cotton clothes line rope pieces.
Jack Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 07:33 PM   #23
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank
Posts: 1,811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
I'm interested in using a black backdrop for some of my interviews.

Am wondering if this can cause any special lighting issues?
To me the backlight/hairlight/etc. is critical to make sure there is a 3 dimensional separation from the black background.

Dark clothes and hair will disappear into the black and require significantly for backlight than light colors to get separation.
Jack Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #24
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank
Posts: 1,811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
I'm interested in using a black backdrop for some of my interviews.
I see you are in Sherman Oaks. Rose Brand is close to you, in Sun Valley:
http://www.rosebrand.com/customer/contact-us.aspx
Jack Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2008, 11:17 AM   #25
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Brockett View Post
green screen with the ReflecMedia Chroma Flex or black are the only two logical choices
LOL - agree totally. In fact, used ReflecMedia to do a 'black-drop' a few times now.

Have also had requirements for white-out whilst on location. Hired a Gekko ring lamp and used that with my ChromaFlex kit. Worked a treat. For laughs, here's the tests we did:

http://www.mdma.tv/playpen/

It's not an 'in the can' effect and needs garbage mattes, etc. However, this plus the new DVmattePro makes it difficult to resist doing every 'talking head' a chromakey job.
Matt Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2008, 02:03 PM   #26
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker View Post
To me the backlight/hairlight/etc. is critical to make sure there is a 3 dimensional separation from the black background.

Dark clothes and hair will disappear into the black and require significantly for backlight than light colors to get separation.
Which leads to another ?. I see a lot of times the key and fill lights are daylight balanced but the hair light is tungsten.

Is this the "normal" way of doing things? To me it looks odd to have golden orange light on the hair only.

What do you use?

My key will be a 5600K five blub Wescott Spiderlight. http://www.fjwestcott.com/fjw.com/products/td5.htm

THANKS MUCH everyone for all the help.
Peter Moretti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2008, 03:19 PM   #27
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
Sometimes people will warm up the hair light a little. I often do that with bastard amber. There are all kinds of warming gels, but I just like saying bastard amber.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2008, 09:50 PM   #28
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
They all sound good, but there is a chest resonance from lavs that drives me crazy. Any ideas on how to correct for it?
Not to get too far off topic (this is the "Photon Management" forum, after all)... but the way to minimise this is to have the lav close to the clavicle (collar bone). This is the location of least vibration. Any lower, you get the chesty sound. Any higher, you get the throaty sound.

Just place your palm on your chest and move upwards as you speak and you will feel the vibration change.

OK, back to lighting!!!
__________________
Mike Barber
"I'm laughing to stop myself from screaming."
Mike Barber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2008, 02:21 PM   #29
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker View Post
I see you are in Sherman Oaks. Rose Brand is close to you, in Sun Valley:
http://www.rosebrand.com/customer/contact-us.aspx
Thanks. BTW, I went to Filmtools in Burbank yesterday to pickup some C-stands and they also carry duvetyne.

But I'll checkout Rose Brand, as I'm very close that area at least once or twice a week.
Peter Moretti is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:17 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network