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Old April 10th, 2008, 11:17 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jay Gladwell View Post
Sorry, Dave, I have to disagree. Direct sun light has never looked blue, and I've been in the business of making images for nearly forty years.

As I explained previously, any blue you may perceive is coming from the blue in the sky, not the sun light.

Let me ask you... On a clear, sunny day, what color are the shadows?

I'm not talking about the sun. I'm not talking about a clear sunny day or a cloudy day or a rainy day or dusk or dawn. I'm not talking about anything that involves the blue sky at all. I'm talking about 5600K and how that 'appears' to you when you have been working under the very common lighting sources with a lower color temperature. And if you work on a film set with tungsten lighting all day and then you turn on an HMI, it does indeed look blue to your eyes. NOT because there is "blue in the sky" but because your eyes and brain have "white balanced" to the warmer light sources.

You can insist that your eyes and brain work completely differently and that they don't adjust to the color temperature of 3200K and that you never ever ever perceive 3200K as "white" and I won't argue with you, but I'll tell you that you are one unique individual.
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Old April 10th, 2008, 01:43 PM   #17
 
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But we were talking about the sun, Dave. Izzy said sun light was blue. It isn't. Period.

It may appear that way to a camera that has been white balanced to 3600K, but that does not alter the actual color of the light, regardless of the source. Light at 5600K is white, not blue, regardless of it source. To say otherwise, like Izzy did, is incorrect and misleading.
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Old April 10th, 2008, 02:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault View Post
Try getting a white balance with a white card when you are trying to shoot a scene with warm streetlights and a daylight fake moonlight. Try getting your white balance when you are trying to fake sunset with studio lights and you will want a camera that can dial in a color temperature.
Thanks for the info Marcus, seems I need to think about this on my next camera purchase. I have a choice to either get the latest and greatest HD camera or I have an opportunity to buy a really nice 16mm. I'm really not sure what I'm going to do. I love being able to shoot and come home and edit. With the 16mm I am going into a new world and I'm not sure if I am ready for $150 for 12mins. =)

Whatever I do I will look for these features as my xl1s does not offer anything like what your talking about.
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Old April 10th, 2008, 07:41 PM   #19
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Oliver, I think you will most likely be happy with a modern HD camera as a replacement for your XL1s. Your camera has a lot of shortcomings mainly due to it's CCDs. A camera with greater sensitivity and resolution will make a huge difference in your video. Newer cameras also have more features that allow image adjustment to your style. I like the results from film but I see it rapidly becoming a nostalgic format. In many ways, HD has equaled film and its workflow is far superior. Of course, cost is a huge factor against film.

Regarding the color of the sun, color temperatures, and the human eye/brain processing of light:

There is no White. White is simply how we perceive electromagnetic radiation that activates our three color sensors somewhat evenly. If all three cones are stimulated simultaneously, our brains label it as white. Whoever said that the sun is not blue is absolutely wrong. The sun has a great deal of high frequency emissions that are within and above our blue receptors. Where do you think the blue in the sky comes from? Is the sky blue? No, the sky is simply blue because the atmosphere has scattered and filtered sunlight. Compared to tungsten light, the sun has a huge amount of blue.

Yes, our brains perform the equivalent of an automatic white balance for us. Working with video we must understand how light works if we want to have ultimate control of our images. We must understand how people perceive light in contrast to what is being emitted. White balance is one example and moonlight is another. We perceive moonlight as "grey" because our color receptors are less sensitive than our colorless receptors. It is harder to see color in dim light so we get a feeling of "grey" light even though there is a rather broad spectrum of light bouncing off the moon.
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Old April 10th, 2008, 09:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault View Post
our brains perform the equivalent of an automatic white balance for us.
So the question is....when will they make a camera that will auto balance to light like our eyes!?

Thanks again Marcus, your very informative.
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Old April 12th, 2008, 12:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Oliver Darden View Post
So the question is....when will they make a camera that will auto balance to light like our eyes!?

Thanks again Marcus, your very informative.
If what you mean is a camera that auto-balances to a single color temperature, nearly all professional cameras do that just fine.

(Sony calls it "auto tracing white balance" - but other manufacturer's cameras do the same thing)

If, however, you mean look at a situation where there's mixed lighting and the camera can resolve all of it so that each each separate area of the scene looks "right" that takes a little more specialized processing.

That kind of processing currently requires a pair of eyes with a human brain attached.
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Old April 12th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #22
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That kind of processing currently requires a pair of eyes with a human brain attached.
so ill keep my eyes open for a camera with a brain included...cool, thanks.
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