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Old September 1st, 2008, 01:16 AM   #31
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More on Betty Pro

Richard,

The Betty Pro's do get fairly hot. There's supposedly a built-in overheating protection that dims the light when the lamp gets too hot. Considering my earlier note on interference effects (rolling bands over the video) when dimming these lights, that could be a severe shortcoming. But I am yet to see the overheating protection kick in, even though I'm shooting in the tropics at a (night) temperature of ca 26 degrees C and often with very little wind. I normally only turn the lights on for shorter durations, though. If you try long shots there may be nasty effects turning up.

The reason I have mounted the diffusors 5 cm in front of the lampheads it to allow ample air circulation.


Regarding LED flashlights - and here I mean the high-power LED ones, not just any LED torch - the ones I've seen had an effect of 3W. That's considerably lower than the Betty Pro (which I recalled being 21 or 22W).

/Bjorn
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Old September 1st, 2008, 06:00 AM   #32
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The rolling issue you're seeing will be PWM dimming where the frequency wasn't high enough so there is some flicker. Its not something you'd notice by eye and this light wasn't made specifically for video so they didn't think a higher frequency would be necessary no doubt.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 09:10 AM   #33
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I've mentioned on this site about a year ago some info on some 22 million candle power HID rechargeable spot lights that I picked up at Sams Club..... I use them when shooting street scenes at night and place them half a block away just to create a little more of a 3d look to the lighting. They are about 6000k..... with a 4" front lens size. I have 6 of them, and they do come in handy. I'll bounce them off of walls, foam core, shine them through windows at night..... and they work really good for a rim light for a live concert feel in music videos.

Sam's has not had them in a while..... they tend to get a pallet and then when it's gone it's gone. they eventually were marked do to $64.... hard for me to pass so I bought the last few.

I always pack them for location jobs.... don't always use them, but when I do I'm thankful.

I think they had a ceramic 35W HID bulb... I'm sure Richard knows more about this type of light than I do....

As for LED lights.... I've bought quite a few just to try.... I have a few of the 500LED's from flolight and love them.... but they are best for small sets light interviews or narrative scenes.... I have no complaints about the quality of light they shine... here's a "message" video shot with them just a few weeks ago....

Dr. Mccall By chris witzke On ExposureRoom

very easy lights to work with for a one man band like me..... I even have some 12v batts that I velcro to their backs that last about an hour if I need to go cordless.

I can't wait until Richard starts selling LED's..... my hope is that he makes some larger and more powerful lights to replace all of my 4 and 6 bank flo lights..... I just hate traveling with flos.... always worried that bulbs will break. THIS is the only reason that I like LED lights.... TOUGH! So... I would love LED lights that are about 18"X24" and put out about as much light as a 4 bank flo. 3 of these in a tough ATA case would be awesome for location work!


I already own a few of Richard's 150 hmi Fresnel's and absolutely love them! I'll be buying more soon! Here's a few still shots where I used them.... some hard, some bounced....

http://www.witzke-studio.com/witzke_images/0009.jpg

http://www.witzke-studio.com/witzke_images/0002.jpg

these lights are basically like a arri 650.... but they are daylight!
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Old September 1st, 2008, 11:04 AM   #34
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Christopher, what a fantastic photography! Thanks for the pics.

Dr McCall Video: what exactly was the lighting setup there, do you recall?
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Old September 1st, 2008, 12:10 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Raskin View Post
Christopher, what a fantastic photography! Thanks for the pics.

Dr McCall Video: what exactly was the lighting setup there, do you recall?
sure... here's what I recall.....

but... I'm not showing the teleprompter on the camera here.... don't know/think it's cutting the exposure down much through the beam splitter.
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LED Lights-mccallset.jpg  
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Old September 1st, 2008, 02:31 PM   #36
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Christopher, thanks for the schematics.

I had a feeling you did away with only one key light :)

Since your hair light was to the side, it did provide a nice kick on the side of the presenter's face, though.

Question about HIDs. If we are talking non-portable ones... is there a way to make a fresnel out of something like this:

150 Watt Hid Light Bulb

?

(also... I feel that maybe I'm hijacking this thread, sorry... should we make another one on HID lighting?)
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Old September 1st, 2008, 03:06 PM   #37
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Hey Christopher, nice footage & thanks for sharing!

Just wanted to share my opinion on the lighting and talent position, please accept it as constructive.

I would have enjoyed more key on the subject as there was not much of a ratio between subject and background. The hotter kicker was drawing my attention.

Also, I would have enjoyed the talent to be angled a little more to the key rather than the camera. He was kind of square shouldered.

Also, a tighter shot would give the appearance of a more personal connection, maybe a creep in as the speech unfurls.

Best of luck!
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Old September 1st, 2008, 05:47 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Raskin View Post
Question about HIDs. If we are talking non-portable ones... is there a way to make a fresnel out of something like this:

150 Watt Hid Light Bulb

?

(also... I feel that maybe I'm hijacking this thread, sorry... should we make another one on HID lighting?)
I'm afraid it wouldn't make a good fresnel. #1 problem is its Sodium vapor. The light it puts out is monochromatic in the 2000K range and extremely low CRI because it is monochromatic. What you need is regular metal halide in a suitable color temperature and CRI. But even if the bulb was metal halide, the #2 problem would be that its too big. The point light source won't be as fine as what you would hope for. And the fresnel would be big too to accomodate the bulb. You would have the feeling that your large fresnel was underpowered. Something in this size format is more suited to a flood light or softbox type fixture. Even then, I might choose a 250w or 400w bulb of similar form factor for that use which would be more the equivalent of something from 1000w to 1600w.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 07:17 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
Hey Christopher, nice footage & thanks for sharing!

Just wanted to share my opinion on the lighting and talent position, please accept it as constructive.

I would have enjoyed more key on the subject as there was not much of a ratio between subject and background. The hotter kicker was drawing my attention.

Also, I would have enjoyed the talent to be angled a little more to the key rather than the camera. He was kind of square shouldered.

Also, a tighter shot would give the appearance of a more personal connection, maybe a creep in as the speech unfurls.

Best of luck!

well, I would not call him talent as he is the president of a 17 campus college system.

I like the way he is lit.... gives shape.... I think I know what I'm doing.

I only had a few minutes of his time and he nailed his "speech" from the teleprompter in one take. He is over to the left for several reasons.... 1. because I'm a believer in 2/3rds rule when composing... and 2. because there will be "copy" placed to the right of him referring to topics he is discussing. ( this is a rough draft.... no layers yet ) and 3. he's no supermodel and I'm not about to use a cybil shepard filter on him.

As this video will be a "web view" I can always creep in on him in post... but I'm not going to.

Tell you what I do need advice on though..... I just can't pick drapes.... can you help me with my interior design?
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Old September 1st, 2008, 07:37 PM   #40
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LOL, Christopher - not with interior design, but...

1. Have you thought of doing all your set interviews as green screen instead.

Then you'd only care about lighting the talent, and you could insert any background design you wanted, in post.

I've done green screen extensively in my studio, but never on location - mainly because it's very hard to light the green screen right, especially on location.

But - I hear stories (including from Philip Bloom) that Reflecmedia kits eliminate such hassle.

So then you could do Reflecmedia for background (no lighting at all, and complete freedom of what it will look like in post), and say your two LED lights for talent only.

2. Why LED and not Fluo lights? I bought 2 Fluo lights in almost exactly the same fixtures like you have, one light is 4x 55W Osrams, another 6x 55W. 5500K. Looks great in limited tests, did not try on anything real yet. Seems like Fluorescents have better diffusion and cost so much less than LED lights...
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Old September 1st, 2008, 11:28 PM   #41
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Christopher,

Sorry I put you on the defensive.

I look at this website as a place of learning and open exchange.

There are so many ways to light a scene, just thought I would tell you what went through my mind as I watched the clip.

BTW, by mentioning angled talent I was referring to the angle of the shoulders with regards to the camera rather than shot composition.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 07:43 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Alex Raskin View Post
LOL, Christopher - not with interior design, but...

1. Have you thought of doing all your set interviews as green screen instead.

Then you'd only care about lighting the talent, and you could insert any background design you wanted, in post.

I've done green screen extensively in my studio, but never on location - mainly because it's very hard to light the green screen right, especially on location.

But - I hear stories (including from Philip Bloom) that Reflecmedia kits eliminate such hassle.

So then you could do Reflecmedia for background (no lighting at all, and complete freedom of what it will look like in post), and say your two LED lights for talent only.

2. Why LED and not Fluo lights? I bought 2 Fluo lights in almost exactly the same fixtures like you have, one light is 4x 55W Osrams, another 6x 55W. 5500K. Looks great in limited tests, did not try on anything real yet. Seems like Fluorescents have better diffusion and cost so much less than LED lights...
normally I do prefer the 4 and 6 bank flos... but they were set up in another room for the other shot..... also, I thankful for their ( 500led ) light weight and can carry 2 on stands at a time.

like I said.... I only had a few minutes of his time and needed to get set up fast.

I've done a few green screen shoots with great success.... but sometimes it's just not an option. and.... I try not to freak out a subject like this one by making it a big production. Having a 24" 1080p monitor near the camera showing how it all looks really helped him get in the mode for it.... a literal view.

Like I said earlier in the thread.... the LEDs are fantastic for quick setup and durability.... I can rely on them to work. they do not compete with the output and quality of light that the 2, 4, and 6 bank flo lights do.

Last edited by Christopher Witz; September 2nd, 2008 at 08:17 AM.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 08:15 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
Christopher,

Sorry I put you on the defensive.

I look at this website as a place of learning and open exchange.

There are so many ways to light a scene, just thought I would tell you what went through my mind as I watched the clip.

BTW, by mentioning angled talent I was referring to the angle of the shoulders with regards to the camera rather than shot composition.

That's cool... I realize your just trying to help. I'm sure If I had more time on this shoot I would have styled it a little better. But I think a better tone to this forum would be to answer when asked... unsolicited opinions are rarely appreciated in any environment. This thread is about LED lights and I was adding to their merits and disadvantages via example.

They availability of low cost flo, led & hmi lights have made it much easier to achieve stylized images in both video and still photography.... I have started using continuous daylight fixtures in my commercial still photography more then ever.... not having to wait for my strobes to recycle.... really seeing what you get rather then having to look at a monitor for a preview is really nice.... the downside is that I tend to shoot a lot more frames.... a typical still shoot for a single layout can yield a 20GB folder of raw 16bit images with my canon 1ds3 or phaseone back. It's kind of interesting that when I opened my studio in 1989, I shot mostly 4X5 and 8X10 and used tungsten lights to shoot most things... Getting back to continuous lights feels more like home. If I had not entered into shooting HD video a few years ago ( client wanted footage of product spinning for tradeshow 50" screen ) I don't think I would have discovered that these LED's or Richards 150 hmi lights existed. Richard... you have a whole other audience to sell your lights to.... us still photogs!

Like I said earlier.... I do have a wish list of lights that do not exist.... large ( 18" X 24" ) LED daylight panels.... very thin, very light, 12v xlr, 4 times brighter than a 500led ( 2000 leds? ) just a simple fixture with black barn doors and bank switchable ( or dim'able if it keeps it's color ) .... I'd pay $1500 each for em and sell all my flo lights. I'd compliment them with 150 to 575 hmi fresnels.



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Old September 2nd, 2008, 08:36 AM   #44
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the LEDs are fantastic for quick setup and durability.... I can rely on them to work. they do not compete with the output and quality of light that the 2, 4, and 6 bank flo lights do.
You mean, Flos are inferior in quality of light, in your opinion?

I haven't used LEDs myself, but heard that their light is harsher than Flo produces, although gives a little more throw so LEDs can be positioned a bit father from the subject. True?
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 08:46 AM   #45
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Alex,

I think Christopher was noting that the LEDs couldn't compare with the Fluoros. The 500 LED is a sweet light and falls somewhere in the middle of a softlight and spotlight. It's a harder light than a fluoro source but it's compact, which for me, allows me to travel with the light, plus a 250 watt pro light, plus my laptop in a carry on when I need to do run and gun stuff. Nice to not have to pack it so TSA can't destroy it.

If I had my druthers, I'd take as many fluoro options as possible with me, but for easy of use and mobility, the LED panels are really nice.
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