LED Lights - Page 5 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Photon Management
Shine an ever-loving light on you.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 4th, 2008, 11:14 PM   #61
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Standing View Post
Well, for what it's worth, I just ordered a FloLight 500 LED light, and the sales staff there were very up front with me that these lights had a slight greenish tinge that might show up if you're using other lights as well. They recommended a 1/4 or 1/8 minus-green gel to correct the problem.

I went ahead and ordered anyway, 'cause the light looks like a good fit for an upcoming project, and I don't mind taping a sheet of gel on, if I have to. Might even leave it permanently on the unit.

We'll see how it works out.
We have two of the Flolights at work. I have been shooting greenscreen with them for months. They are superb as greenscreen fill lights, they are even enough to light a perfect interview greenscreen yet they are hard enough to actually aim somewhat.

I am not crazy about them as key lights but as a greenscreen light, they are awesome. I was curious if I could key with them as daylight for the greenscreen and still use tungsten on the talent. Would the keyer care if the color temps of the two light sources were different? Not in the least. Ran a battery of tests and you can key them as daylight, leaving them uncorrected as 5600k and use tungsten to light talent. As long as you are far enough away to avoid spill, no problems. I tried matching the Flos to tungsten by putting some full CTO on them. They keyed better with nothing on them. LEDs are cool but kind of wimpy in their output or at least these ones are.

I would love to evaluate the LED-Z, they look quite a bit more serious than the Flos.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2008, 08:28 AM   #62
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Romania
Posts: 119
For those who are looking for an European supplier of this kind of LED panels that Flolight is selling , take a look here: www.videogrip.net
Sergiu Pavel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2008, 09:15 AM   #63
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,435
Dan, have you tried Reflecmedia for greenscreen, instead of trying to light it?

I have no experience with it yet, but reviews seem to be glowing. Pricey though.
Alex Raskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2008, 10:05 AM   #64
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
Those look exactly like the Flolight LEDs. Probably the same thing, but 220.

Dan, so you lit the green screen daylight, shot the talent tungsten and it worked OK? That's interesting. I might try that next time. About the LED output, they are only wimpy when compared to a more focused source. I compared the 500LED to a Lowel Caselight 2, which is the fluorescent equivalent, and the LED was about 1/4 stop hotter at 10 feet than the fluorescent. I think if the 500LED had the same mirror reflectors as the Caselight, instead of the pebbly stuff, they would probably be a good 1/2 stop better. I'm interested in adding the new LED 1000 to my package. That would be equivalent to the Caselight 4.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2008, 11:44 AM   #65
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE
Posts: 749
The brightest LED I have so far is about 135 lumens. That's the output coming from just ONE C4 LED. I haven't seen any that is mounted on a bank suitable for video so far. If there are any around, I would be interested to take a look.
TingSern Wong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2008, 01:37 PM   #66
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Brockett View Post
I am not crazy about them as key lights but as a greenscreen light, they are awesome.
Why, in your opinion, don't they work as key lights? Interested in your experiences.
__________________
http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/
Documentary for the masses!
Brian Standing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2008, 02:03 PM   #67
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
TengSern, here are the ones I use: Teleprompters - Prompter People

The more common ones are from Litepanels, but they're a lot more expensive for basically the same thing. However, they have a clever design and can be arranged into huge banks as big as you want.

I key all the time with LEDs, especially when doing single or 2-person interviews. Because the LEDs I have are harder than the equivalent fluorescents, I always use diffusion gel when they're in close.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2008, 03:46 PM   #68
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Raskin View Post
Dan, have you tried Reflecmedia for greenscreen, instead of trying to light it?

I have no experience with it yet, but reviews seem to be glowing. Pricey though.
Hi Alex:

Yes, I have been shooting with the ReflecMedia ChromaFlex system for over two years, I used it for all of the interviews for the "The Dawn Of Sound: When The Movies Learned to Talk" documentary that I did for TCM as well as hundreds of others with it.

Love the ChromaFlex it but if your talent has glasses, the system is limited because it is going to put perfect little green or blue rings of reflection in said glasses. When you key the talent, you get holes in their eyes where the green ring was, then you end up having to do a separate matte/key and keying in something white or gray so that the LED reflections look like ambient light reflections.

I shoot a lot of DVD bonus material for classic releases and interview many scholars, historians and older people, many of whom wear glasses so this issue keeps coming up over and over. So we have been trying to develop a smaller, lighter greenscreen system with a PVC frame, a foam backed green fabric and two of these Flolights. In tests, we find that the traditional greenscreen using the Flos tends to have cleaner darks, is easier to pull a clean key. Hair and other difficult items key cleaner using the traditional greenscreen technique. But you must have enough room to use it and you must be able to carefully control ambient light and you must have enough room to eliminate spill onto the talent.

Bottom line, I am still using both systems. If they don't wear glasses or you have a small space, ChromaFlex is still best. If you have glasses and or room to shoot in, the traditional way, using the Flolights provides a cleaner key.

Like everything else in this damn business, there is no single best way of doing it ;-)

Dan

Last edited by Dan Brockett; September 7th, 2008 at 11:14 AM.
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2008, 03:53 PM   #69
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Pryor View Post
Those look exactly like the Flolight LEDs. Probably the same thing, but 220.

Dan, so you lit the green screen daylight, shot the talent tungsten and it worked OK? That's interesting. I might try that next time. About the LED output, they are only wimpy when compared to a more focused source. I compared the 500LED to a Lowel Caselight 2, which is the fluorescent equivalent, and the LED was about 1/4 stop hotter at 10 feet than the fluorescent. I think if the 500LED had the same mirror reflectors as the Caselight, instead of the pebbly stuff, they would probably be a good 1/2 stop better. I'm interested in adding the new LED 1000 to my package. That would be equivalent to the Caselight 4.
Hi Bill:

Yes, shot an extensive battery of tests with the following:

1. Greenscreen lit with uncorrected Flos 5600k with talent lit with uncorrected Tungsten 3200k

2. Greenscreen lit with corrected Flos/full CTO with talent lit with uncorrected Tungsten 3200k

3. Greenscreen lit with uncorrected Flos 5600k with talent lit with corrected Tungsten/full CTB

Number one consistently gave us the best results using three different keyers. Sometimes you have to break the rules and just see what works. I don't like putting CTB on tungsten because as we all know it eats all of the output and the Flos are the same, with full CTO, they run out of throw pretty quickly.

Yes, I guess I am a traditionalist as far as output. I am use to firing up a 1k or 650 fresnel and having that amount of output. I own two Diva 200s and when I shoot with them, they seem similar in output to the Flos, nice quality of light but it falls off so quickly compared to tungsten instruments.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2008, 03:53 PM   #70
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,435
Cleaner key w regular greenscreen - that's what I suspected... :)

Thanks for the excellent, detailed explanation!
Alex Raskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2008, 03:58 PM   #71
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,069
Reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Standing View Post
Why, in your opinion, don't they work as key lights? Interested in your experiences.
Hi Brian:

It's not that they don't work at all as a key source. It's just my preference for interviews. To me, nothing comes close to a 1k open face tungsten light through my medium Chimera. My Divas are the same, they don't render skin tones as nicely, they don't have nearly as much wrap since they are a much smaller source than a Chimera.

I shot a few interviews with them as key sources and they are kind of in between a hard light and a softlight. Harsher than a softbox, but not as cool looking as a fresnel. If you put a Chimera onto a Flo, you are killing all of the limited output. So to me, they are outstanding as a broad source for lighting BGs and green screens, not so hot for lighting talent. Plus that green spike they have, dealing with minus green is a hassle.

I think LEDs are the future, they will eventually replace tungsten, I just don't think that they are quite "there" yet as an all purpose source.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2008, 07:43 PM   #72
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 621
O.K., I just got my LED 500 and tested it out with my HD100. I did a manual white balance on a white card with the LED 500 as the only source, and came up with a color temp of 4300K, instead of the 5600K it's supposed to be!

I haven't put any minus-green on it, yet since my Rosco supplier isn't open on weekends. Could the green spike cause a drop in color temp like this? I'm really not too keen on putting CTB on this to raise the color temp.

Anyone else notice this? Is it possible I have a defective unit?
__________________
http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/
Documentary for the masses!
Brian Standing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2008, 08:15 PM   #73
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
I checked mine with a Gossen color temperature meter and got between 5500 and 5600K, but closer to 5500 than 5600.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2008, 09:01 PM   #74
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 621
Hmmm... I'll have to test the HD100's white balance against some other known light sources, just to make sure it's accurate.

If so, I'll probably have to return the LED 500's. 4300 vs. 5600 is way off the 5% margin of error quoted in FloLight's technical specs.
__________________
http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/
Documentary for the masses!
Brian Standing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2008, 07:11 AM   #75
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 591
hmmm... odd, I had my wb mem A set at 5600k for the mccall vid in the earlier post with the 500led's. I've never had to gel them to match osram 55w flos.

by the way.... I've read somewhere that color meters can't measure leds accurately.
Christopher Witz is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:35 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network